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To: Colofornian

Take a look at Luke 10:18. It shows Satan was once part of the heavenly hosts before he was cast out of heaven having become perdition. Revelation 12:8 says the same thing. If all who were in heaven were not created by God, then who were they created by? Space aliens? So in as much as that’s true, then sure I guess Jesus and Satan have a familial connection as we all do—one long ago shattered when Satan rebelled and was cast out. That’s where any kind of relationship or comparison between the two ends. Christ is the personification of all that’s good and right. Satan is the personification of all that’s wrong and evil. Saying they were brothers, not really an official teaching of the church other than in a tangential way from the teaching of all being children of the same God, doesn’t mean Christ and Satan are at all comparable. And it doesn’t mean Mormons worship the devil. Kind of a silly and desperate thing to dredge up, don’t you think? It’s like saying if you believe in the brotherhood of all mankind and that we’re all children of God as I think most Christians do, that somehow you must believe Hitler and Jesus have something in common. It’s pretty much an intellectually deficient cheap-shot broadside in both instances.


30 posted on 08/02/2012 4:19:35 PM PDT by MissesBush (The Fourth Estate has Become a Fifth Column)
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To: MissesBush
Take a look at Luke 10:18. It shows Satan was once part of the heavenly hosts before he was cast out of heaven having become perdition. Revelation 12:8 says the same thing. If all who were in heaven were not created by God, then who were they created by? Space aliens?

Thank you, MissesBush for your civil response. This is indeed a good question, especially from an Lds perspective.

If you want, I can cite in another post several verses from the Lds standard works -- including the D&C...see, for example, D&C 93:9-10 -- which cites Jesus as being the "Creator." [One key difference in how Lds use this term -- vs. Christians -- is that Lds believe that Jesus and the Father "organized" things into existence from eternal matter; vs. Christians who cite the book of Hebrews and say that God/Jesus created all "out of nothing" (ex nihilo)].

The key verses I would point you to re: your question is from the apostle Paul to the Colossians: 15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him ALL things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether THRONES OR POWERS OR RULERS OR AUTHORITIES; ALL things have been created THROUGH HIM and for him... (Col. 1)

We know that Paul is including even the fallen angels in Col. 1:16 -- because he references them in the same way in Eph. 6: 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

Jesus created Lucifer, MissesBush. He is Lucifer's creator -- not simply a fellow "creature" to Lucifer as Mormons teach.

Now how do we know that Mormon leaders have taught Jesus to be a "creature" (as well as an organizer)???

The 'Mormon' Jesus: "Christ is a saved being” (lds "apostle" McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Vol. 3, p 257)

“Modern revelation speaks of our Lord as he that ‘ascended up on high, as also he descended below all things, in that he comprehended all things, that he might be in all and through all things, the light of truth‘ (D&C 88:6). Christ's rise to the throne of exaltation was preceded by his descent below all things. Only by submitting to the powers of demons and death and hell could he, in the resurrection, serve as our exemplar of a saved being... (McConkie and Millet, Doctrinal Commentary on the Book of Mormon, vol. 1, p. 234)

Please also see...
* McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Vol. 3, p. 238 where he said the Mormon "jesus" "Needs salvation...Came to earth to work out His own salvation)
* McConkie, "The Seven Deadly Heresies,' in Speeches of the Year, 1980 [Provo: Brigham Young University Press, 1981] p. 78 where he said: "There was only one perfect being, the Lord Jesus. If men had to be perfect and live all of the law strictly, wholly, and completely, there would be only one saved person in eternity." [cited in Come, Follow Me: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide 1983 (1983) p. 72]

I'm sorry, but the real Christ did not need to "work out His own salvation" as Lds apostles teach; in fact, He is THE Savior of the world: And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be THE Savior of the world. (1 John 4:14; cf. John 4:42).

49 posted on 08/02/2012 4:56:15 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: MissesBush
So in as much as that’s true, then sure I guess Jesus and Satan have a familial connection as we all do—one long ago shattered when Satan rebelled and was cast out.

Your 'guess' is bad logic.

JESUS was NOT 'created'; but the Creator!

Read the book!


Hebrews 1:1-2 (NIV)

In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

103 posted on 08/03/2012 5:46:20 AM PDT by Elsie
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