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To: Colofornian
nowhere do the scriptures use this expression in reference to Jesus.

Wrong, Colo. Sorry, this is one area where the Mormons got it at least partly right.

Romans 8:29 says that Jesus is "firstborn among many brethren". The "many brethren" is us, the Church, therefore Jesus is indeed precisely our elder brother. We are Sons of God as well, by adoption through grace, while he is *the* Son of God by nature. (cf 1 Jn 3) Obviously if he is the "firstborn," and we are the "many brethren," then he is our eldest brother.

That's orthodox (and Orthodox) Christianity.

20 posted on 07/18/2012 5:41:32 AM PDT by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: Campion; All
#1 The Mormon author of the study -- and BYU -- is the source of the following (not me): "...nowhere do the scriptures use this expression in reference to Jesus."

This was a quote. Additionally, that same author (Volluz) capsulized in his study toward the END of his piece: "The concept that Jesus is the elder brother of the human family is not expressly set forth in the standard works..."

(The "standard works" of Mormonism includes the Bible)

#2 The official Lds magazine Ensign included this graph: On first hearing, the doctrine that Lucifer and our Lord, Jesus Christ, are brothers may seem surprising to some—especially to those unacquainted with latter-day revelations. But both the scriptures and the prophets affirm that Jesus Christ and Lucifer are indeed offspring of our Heavenly Father and, therefore, spirit brothers….But as the Firstborn of the Father, Jesus was Lucifer’s older brother. (See Col. 1:15; D&C 93:21.)
Secondary source: Is Jesus Christ the Spirit Brother of Satan?

Please note re: the bold-face references that the Lds church had an opportunity to pick which "firstborn" passages it would reference in trying to back this belief up...it chose Col. 1:15 & a D&C reference...but not Romans 8:29.

#3 So what's the reason that Mormons (BYU/Lds Church via Ensign; Corbin Volluz) all avoided tying in Romans 8 to "Elder Brother?"

Simply put..."adoption" doesn't fit into the Mormon scheme of firsthand spirit child-bearing. Note that I indeed covered the "adoption" angle in the second post (see #5...because indeed the context for Romans 8 is adoption...) Please see the rest of the second post re: the way Mormons use "Elder Brother" to dilute the uniqueness of Christ.

26 posted on 07/18/2012 5:59:13 AM PDT by Colofornian (Saying Mitt would keep past political promises is like prophesying that Gumby won't bend anymore)
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To: Campion
Obviously if he is the "firstborn," and we are the "many brethren," then he is our eldest brother.

Sorry; but your logic is wrong.

When I was in the service, I was an American AMONG many brethen: the Thai citizens of Southeast Asia.


Simple parsing.

30 posted on 07/18/2012 6:07:03 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To re emphasize:

No...Jesus is NOT the elder brother of all people on earth...per john 8 that is unorthodox.
Yes thru adoption we become his children, but that is NOT the way Mormons exegete this...otherwise they would quote rom 8 29 vs avoiding it...
What I mean by lds "reducing" Jesus to "elder brother" status can be found in two parallel illustrations...
* people call Jesus a good teacher...orthodox wise jesus was/is rabboni...a master teacher...but Jesus transcends being only a good teacher...somebody can state a technically true attribute and yet still be reductionistic...
* likewise a man approached Jesus in the gospels with the greeting "good teacher"...Jesus responded "why do you call me good?" Jesus didn't question His own goodness there...what the man said was technically true...yet Jesus chose to address the faulty worldview presumption baggage

36 posted on 07/18/2012 6:35:54 AM PDT by Colofornian (Saying Mitt would keep past political promises is like prophesying that Gumby won't bend anymore)
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To: Campion; Colofornian
Wrong, Colo. Sorry, this is one area where the Mormons got it at least partly right.

No, mormonism didn't even get it partially right. Here is why the DEFINITIONS of the termonology used by mormons is so important. Within mormon termonology, they use the term 'brother' in an ontologial manner - that is Jesus is the same being as you and I.

Romans 8 states that we are ADOPTED - therefore there is no genetic relationship with Jesus as brother but a relational manner brought by salvation.

If one would pay attention to the twisting of terminology by mormonism, one wouldn't be defending the unorthodox application of the words used by mormons.

59 posted on 07/18/2012 8:33:12 AM PDT by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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