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To: Lazamataz
I have. While I am probably not able to fully understand it (not wired that way), I stand by my point.

If I was to take my friend and lock him up when he was drinking, he would stop drinking (by force). My other friend would still have cancer. One has a problem that requires an act to give the condition, the other has it no matter what. Now, is there brain changes or predispositions that can affect addictive behavior? Of course. My friend has an addictive personality. What worked for him, and others, is to change the cue and habit that caused him to drink and do drugs with something else. He did it first with smoking cigarettes, and lately with exercise.

My point is that I have seen people with destructive behavior say “it is a disease!” and then stop trying to change. May be the people I have managed and known, but calling it a disease was not helpful. When they admit that 1. Have a problem that is out of control, and 2. That there is a possibility to get it under control, they start to get help. Those who have have said "It is a disease!" have had no motivation to change or get help. They view the addiction as something that can not get fixed or treated.

Now this is just from my experience with the people I have known. And from my experience with people is that once you let them take on the mantle of "victim" they loose motivation to change.

93 posted on 05/16/2012 10:49:04 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: redgolum
Now this is just from my experience with the people I have known. And from my experience with people is that once you let them take on the mantle of "victim" they loose motivation to change.

Now you have met one person, me, who was conferred the status of victim, but recovered and changed.

They say in the program, "You may not be responsible for your disease... but you ARE responsible for your recovery."

It's not an absolution from all responsibility, for us to accept that the addiction is the disease part.

95 posted on 05/16/2012 10:52:58 AM PDT by Lazamataz (The so-called 'mainstream' media has gone from "biased" straight to "utterly surreal".)
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To: redgolum

Diseases require treatment.

Anyone who declares “it’s a disease!” and doesn’t treat/manage it by changing behavior suffers the effects until it destroys them. Some diseases require active treatment, some are managed by avoidance. A diabetic declaring “it’s a disease!” who then consumes a chocolate cake will do himself harm, while many diabetics avoid problems and medication by avoiding certain foods; either way, they’ve still got diabetes and it’s still a disease even though it hinges in large part on cognitive choices.

Those you refer to are just choosing to not treat it, in this case by avoiding imbibing certain beverages. Yes, “victim” status is demoralizing and inhibits effective treatment - regardless of the problem (which sometimes doesn’t exist). Perhaps they’ve never seen someone say “yeah, ok, so I’m a victim - so be it, I’ll do what I must to get past it.” It’s still a disease.

The problem, which you state yet overlook, is that it’s a matter of “take on the mantle of ‘victim’”. Anyone who does, whether or not there is a disease/problem, will lose motivation to change (hence the welfare state). And some just decide that suffering the disease’s effects is preferable to treatment; chocolate cake still tastes real good to a diabetic, and the effects of some chemicals is - for some - preferable to straight-up reality or the possibilities therein.


97 posted on 05/16/2012 11:20:00 AM PDT by ctdonath2 (Cloud storage? Dropbox rocks! Sign up at http://db.tt/nQqWGd3 for 2GB free (and I get more too).)
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