Study: Over Half of South Jersey's Catholics Believe That Jesus Sinned

RE: I have translated writings of the Early Church Fathers on disk translated from Greek given to me by Kolokotronis (who used to post here on FR) that don’t match Philp Schaff CCEl site.

Here’s a question for you — WHY IS THE TRANSLATION GIVEN BY KOLKOTRONIS’ right and Schaff’s wrong?

And why should one believe the attacks on Philip Schaff’s motives?

And please don’t give me a reason of this form : Because Philip Schaff is not Roman Catholic and Kolkotronis is.

That is not an acceptable reason.

I want an objective reason for doubting the correctness of Philip Schaff’s translation.

I think it might be a good idea for you to take a break and pray for Christ to open your heart and do honest research.

I have the seen the prideful know it alls become unglued before,but it is a good thing because it can lead them to humility and truth when they realize they were wrong,unlike Webster -Who I will be at Adoration praying for this week along with you.

I wish you a Blessed evening. Good Night

RE: I think it might be a good idea for you to take a break and pray for Christ to open your heart and do honest research.

How do you know that I am not praying?

RE: I have the seen the prideful know it alls become unglued before,but it is a good thing because it can lead them to humility and truth when they realize they were wrong

I can realize I am wrong ( if I am ) if you can show me through reason and evidence but not until.

I don’t think it is good for you to ASSUME that just because someone disagrees with you or shows doubt about your take on things, it is automatically a sign of pride.

With that, I say good night.

"I want an objective reason for doubting the correctness of Philip Schaff’s translation."

Faith.

It was Søren Kierkegaard, a Danish Lutheran, who rejected objective reasoning outright as a basis for faith. For Kierkegaard, faith was a fundamentally different process from objective reasoning, a matter of passion rather than reflection. He opposed the notion of proof to that of faith, arguing that faith is only possible when faced with uncertainty:

"Without risk, no faith... If I am able to apprehend God objectively, I do not have faith; but because I cannot do this, I must have faith."

I would also venture to add that to begin with a presumption of Schaff's correctness is not objective.

Peace be with you.

RE: “Without risk, no faith... If I am able to apprehend God objectively, I do not have faith; but because I cannot do this, I must have faith.”

Sure, but what is the OBJECT of your faith?

Faith is only as good as the OBJECT for your faith. If you faith is on X and X does not help you, then your faith is in vain.

The 9/11 hijackers had faith that their martyrdom would bring them reward. What good did it do for them?

Hence, I choose to put my absolute faith in the WORD OF GOD.

As for Schiff vs some other translation, I am not going to put blind faith in any one of them. I have to use the faculties that God has given me to make a judgement. Not simply say — just because someone said he is trustworthy or he has sinister motives — I should then believe him.

For now, it seems to me that Schiff looks like a good resource. That is why I asked the other poster to show me with good evidence that he is not.

"Sure, but what is the OBJECT of your faith?"

I'll go with St. Thomas Aquinas on this one:

"The object of every cognitive habit includes two things: first, that which is known materially, and secondly, that whereby it is known. In both of these, the object of faith is God."

I have no objections with Aquinas’ view.

"I have no objections with Aquinas’ view."

I didn't think you would. I've seen a lot of people try to argue against Aquinas, but none successfully.

“”I’ve seen a lot of people try to argue against Aquinas, but none successfully.””

Especially one like this from Blessed Aquinas-who quotes The Early Church Fathers in the proper context upholding what they believed.

CONTRA ERRORES GRAECORUM
by ST. THOMAS AQUINAS
http://dhspriory.org/thomas/ContraErrGraecorum.htm#b33
C
HAPTER 33

That the same Pontiff has universal jurisdiction over the entire Church of Christ.

It is also shown that the Vicar of Christ has universal jurisdiction over the entire Church of Christ. For it is recorded of the Council of Chalcedon how the whole synod acclaimed Pope Leo: “Long live Leo, the most holy, apostolic, and ecumenical, that is, universal patriarch.” Footnote

And Chrysostom commenting on Matthew says: “The power Footnote which is of the Father and of the Son himself the Son conferred worldwide on Peter and gave a mortal man authority over all things in heaven, giving him the keys in order that he might extend the Church throughout the world.” Footnote And in homily 85 on John: “He allocated James a determined territory, but he appointed Peter master and teacher of the whole world.” Footnote Again, commenting on the Acts of the Apostles: “Not like Moses over one people, but throughout the whole world Peter received from the Son power over all those who are His sons.” Footnote

This is also taught on the authority of Holy Scripture. For Christ entrusted hi sheep to the care of Peter without restriction, when he said in the last chapter of John (21:15): Feed my sheep; and in John 10:16: That there might be one fold and one shepherd.

CHAPTER 34

That the same possesses in the Church a fullness of power.

It is also established from the texts of the aforesaid Doctors that the Roman Pontiff possesses a fullness of power in the Church. For Cyril, the Patriarch of Alexandria, says in his Thesaurus: “As Christ coming forth from Israel as leader and sceptre of the Church of the Gentiles was granted by the Father the fullest power over every principality and power and whatever is that all might bend the knee to him, so he entrusted most fully the fullest power to Peter and his successors.” And again: “To no one else but Peter and to him alone Christ gave what is his fully.” And further on: “The feet of Christ are his humanity, that is, the man himself, to whom the whole Trinity gave the fullest power, whom one of the Three assumed in the unity of his person and lifted up on high to the Father above every principality and power, so that all the angels of God might adore him (Heb. 1:6); which whole and entire he has left in sacrament and power to Peter and to his Church.” Footnote

And Chrysostom says to the Bulgarian delegation Footnote speaking in the person of Christ: “Three times I ask you whether you love me, because you denied me three times out of fear and trepidation. Now restored, however, lest the brethren believe you to have lost the grace and authority of the keys, I now confirm in you that which is fully mine, because you love me in their presence.” Footnote

This is also taught on the authority of Scripture. For in Matthew 16: 19 the Lord said to Peter without restriction: Whatsoever you shall bind upon earth shall be bound in heaven.

Here it is again after I removed the Footnote parts

CONTRA ERRORES GRAECORUM
by ST. THOMAS AQUINAS
http://dhspriory.org/thomas/ContraErrGraecorum.htm#b33
CHAPTER 33

That the same Pontiff has universal jurisdiction over the entire Church of Christ.

It is also shown that the Vicar of Christ has universal jurisdiction over the entire Church of Christ. For it is recorded of the Council of Chalcedon how the whole synod acclaimed Pope Leo: “Long live Leo, the most holy, apostolic, and ecumenical, that is, universal patriarch.”

And Chrysostom commenting on Matthew says: “The power which is of the Father and of the Son himself the Son conferred worldwide on Peter and gave a mortal man authority over all things in heaven, giving him the keys in order that he might extend the Church throughout the world.” And in homily 85 on John: “He allocated James a determined territory, but he appointed Peter master and teacher of the whole world.” Again, commenting on the Acts of the Apostles: “Not like Moses over one people, but throughout the whole world Peter received from the Son power over all those who are His sons.”

This is also taught on the authority of Holy Scripture. For Christ entrusted hi sheep to the care of Peter without restriction, when he said in the last chapter of John (21:15): Feed my sheep; and in John 10:16: That there might be one fold and one shepherd.

CHAPTER 34

That the same possesses in the Church a fullness of power.

It is also established from the texts of the aforesaid Doctors that the Roman Pontiff possesses a fullness of power in the Church. For Cyril, the Patriarch of Alexandria, says in his Thesaurus: “As Christ coming forth from Israel as leader and sceptre of the Church of the Gentiles was granted by the Father the fullest power over every principality and power and whatever is that all might bend the knee to him, so he entrusted most fully the fullest power to Peter and his successors.” And again: “To no one else but Peter and to him alone Christ gave what is his fully.” And further on: “The feet of Christ are his humanity, that is, the man himself, to whom the whole Trinity gave the fullest power, whom one of the Three assumed in the unity of his person and lifted up on high to the Father above every principality and power, so that all the angels of God might adore him (Heb. 1:6); which whole and entire he has left in sacrament and power to Peter and to his Church.”

And Chrysostom says to the Bulgarian delegation speaking in the person of Christ: “Three times I ask you whether you love me, because you denied me three times out of fear and trepidation. Now restored, however, lest the brethren believe you to have lost the grace and authority of the keys, I now confirm in you that which is fully mine, because you love me in their presence.”

This is also taught on the authority of Scripture. For in Matthew 16: 19 the Lord said to Peter without restriction: Whatsoever you shall bind upon earth shall be bound in heaven.

“”I can realize I am wrong ( if I am ) if you can show me through reason and evidence but not until.””

Eucharistic Miracles
http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/a3.html

The Eucharistic Miracles of the World
http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/engl_mir.htm

Try going to Eucharist Adoration in a church near you and perhaps Our Lord will change your mind.Protestants are welcome to attend Eucharist Adoration

Assuming you live in the US ,here is the list

Churches and Chapels in USA that have Eucharistic Adoration
http://www.therealpresence.org/chap_fr.htm

I don’t think it is good for you to ASSUME that just because someone disagrees with you or shows doubt about your take on things, it is automatically a sign of pride.

I apologize,dear friend, I have a very bad fault of antagonizing people sometimes. I will need to go to confession for this since it's wrong and sinful

I wish you a Blessed evening

RE: Eucharistic Miracles
http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/a3.html

The Eucharistic Miracles of the World
http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/engl_mir.htm

Try going to Eucharist Adoration in a church near you and perhaps Our Lord will change your mind.Protestants are welcome to attend Eucharist Adoration

______________________

Again, please don’t post the ENTIRE website for me. I know how to get there and the EWTN websites to get their information.

This is FR, and I want YOU to tell me what you believe and why. With scriptural support.

"Especially one like this from Blessed Aquinas..."

Thank you. St. Thomas Aquinas is a favorite of mine. I just finished reading Chesterton's essay "St. Thomas Aquinas: The Dumb Ox". A very insightful look at the man behind the theology. I highly recommend it.

Pax et bonum.