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Pope issues rare, forceful correction to dissident priests in Holy Week liturgy
Life Site News ^ | April 5, 2012 | HILARY WHITE

Posted on 04/09/2012 6:08:04 AM PDT by NYer

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To: BipolarBob

What a brilliantly ignorant statement.


41 posted on 04/09/2012 6:55:25 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (We kneel to no prince but the Prince of Peace)
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To: Natural Law

It is unlike your words, completely from scripture. Most of it is found in the Acts.

Mathias was artificially called an apostle, but appointment of apostles was strictly the job of Christ, and he appointed Paul. Mathias never fulfilled men’s hopes.

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>> “I am also curious to know how it is you believe that the Apostles taught the “Good News” between receiving their commission and the writing of the Scriptures” <<

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What is there to be curious about? Its all written down in the Acts and the epistles. There is nothing else to know. If there were, one of them would have recorded it. Most of the filling in was done by Luke, who must have been the world’s best listener.

>> “All were commanded to got forth and preach the Gospel to all nations, but we only have Scripture from five of them.” <<

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A rather cocky assumption. Have you considered the possibility that some of the apostles really did go forth into all the world? That their writing may be in the eastern world? That it may yet be found?
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42 posted on 04/09/2012 7:02:11 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas

>> “Martin Luther was a man. His doctrines are human.” <<

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‘His’ doctrines are from scripture, except for the junk that he retained from the Roman ‘church.’
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43 posted on 04/09/2012 7:05:03 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
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To: BipolarBob
Whenever I have these discussions with Catholics, it usually ends with an overwhelming flurry of writings or non-Biblical readings.

Dearie me. This book larnin' is highly overrated.

The one pervasive common feature is the almost horrifying reaction to Sola Scriptura as if it were the Devils Brew.

The entire NT depicts the establishment of the teaching church. Sola Scriptura is not permitted. Only the teachings of the Apostles and disciples (and the Church)are.

Jesus spoke to a largely unlearned group.

Just like today, a whole bunch of them do not understand.

He spoke in parables. He didn't tell the people that salvation was out of their grasp because it's just too hard! No He did not. Any church, group or person that declares the Bible is insufficient to find salvation is trying either to make a dollar or vying for some influence over people.

What Bible did Jesus teach out of? What Bible did any of the Apostles teach out of?

The Truth shall set you free and not some self declared infallible institution that once presided over inquisitions.

The Word shall set you free, and not any self declared interpreter of the word of God who gets his doctrines from the image in the mirror each morning.

44 posted on 04/09/2012 7:06:57 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr; BipolarBob

>> “The entire NT depicts the establishment of the teaching church. Sola Scriptura is not permitted. Only the teachings of the Apostles and disciples (and the Church)are.” <<

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LOL!

Matthew 15:

[3] But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
[4] For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
[5] But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
[6] And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
[7] Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
[8] This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
[9] But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

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Christ denounced all traditions, and demanded obedience to the written commandments. We must emulate him, ans reject the traditions of Satan taught by the catholic ‘church.’
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>> “What Bible did Jesus teach out of? What Bible did any of the Apostles teach out of?” <<

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The Hebrew scriptures of course. They told all that needed to be said to find Christ.
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45 posted on 04/09/2012 7:18:34 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
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To: editor-surveyor
Christ denounced all traditions, and demanded obedience to the written commandments. We must emulate him, ans reject the traditions of Satan taught by the catholic ‘church.’

Jesus chided the Jews for preferring their interpretation of Scripture over Him.

Since the Catholic Church teaches no tradition of satan, we're good. However by your own words do you reject Christ. You also reject the many injunctions of Paul to listen to him and the Church teachers. How do you reconcile that?

John 5: 33“You have sent to John and he has testified to the truth. 34Not that I accept human testimony; but I mention it that you may be saved. 35John was a lamp that burned and gave light, and you chose for a time to enjoy his light. 36“I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the very work that the Father has given me to finish, and which I am doing, testifies that the Father has sent me. 37And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. 39You diligently studyc the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, 40yet you refuse to come to me to have life. 41“I do not accept praise from men, 42but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts. 43I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him. 44How can you believe if you accept praise from one another, yet make no effort to obtain the praise that comes from the only God? 45“But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set. 46If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. 47But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?”

The Jews had only Scripture, as do the self-interpreters of today.

>> “What Bible did Jesus teach out of? What Bible did any of the Apostles teach out of?” <<

. The Hebrew scriptures of course. They told all that needed to be said to find Christ.

Yup. That's why the nation of Israel are all Christian.

46 posted on 04/09/2012 7:29:48 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: BipolarBob
”Whenever I have these discussions with Catholics, it usually ends with an overwhelming flurry of writings or non-Biblical readings.

When anyone begins a commentary on Scripture, doctrine or dogma they must diverge from actual Scripture and begin to present their own thoughts and those of others. If all you want is an exchange of Scripture verses or a Protestant echo chamber you are in the wrong forum.

The one pervasive common feature is the almost horrifying reaction to Sola Scriptura as if it were the Devils Brew.

There is a pervasive Protestant myth expressed in these threads that Scripture and Tradition are mutually exclusive, and that Catholics, having accepted Tradition have entirely forsaken Scripture. The Church teaches; "CCC133 - The Church "forcefully and specifically exhorts all the Christian faithful... to learn the surpassing knowledge of Jesus Christ, by frequent reading of the divine Scriptures. Ignorance of the Scriptures is ignorance of Christ."

Jesus spoke to a largely unlearned group. He spoke simply. He spoke in parables. He didn't tell the people that salvation was out of their grasp because it's just too hard!

Why do so many believe that illiterate means stupid and that anyone with the ability to Google a subject is somehow more intelligent? The peoples of the first century spent a lot more time in actual prayer, worship and contemplation than all but a few in this century. They also had a very solid foundation in Scripture and Rabbinic tradition derived from their culture. Nuance, subtlety, and idiomatic context were not foreign to them.

Any church, group or person that declares the Bible is insufficient to find salvation is trying either to make a dollar or vying for some influence over people.”

Conversely, Catholics see anyone attempting to restrict the Word of God to a dead letter or legal document has a completely different agenda than the Truth.

The Truth shall set you free and not some self declared infallible institution that once presided over inquisitions.

And now we have come full circle. How can you deny the ability to interpret Scripture to the Episcopacy of the Catholic, while claiming it for yourself? How can you rely on pastors, preachers, Reformers, Protestant authors and lecturers while mocking Catholics for relying on their versions of the same thing?

I think it very unfortunate that too many Protestants and Catholics allow our beliefs in the Revealed Word to divide us and be a source of contention. We all who call ourselves Christians are called to love one another. Peace be to you.

47 posted on 04/09/2012 7:43:07 PM PDT by Natural Law (If you love the Catholic Church raise your hands, if not raise your standards.)
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To: MarkBsnr

>> “Jesus chided the Jews for preferring their interpretation of Scripture over Him.” <<

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You might get away with that kind of deception with someone that has never read Matthew, but any Bible reader can see that Christ completely denounced all “traditions” in favor of the plain word of God.

Every ‘tradition’ of the catholic ‘church’ is an extension of the lies of Satan.


48 posted on 04/09/2012 9:03:54 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
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To: Natural Law; BipolarBob

>> “Jesus spoke to a largely unlearned group. He spoke simply. He spoke in parables...” <<

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Actually, Jesus was speaking to the very most learned scholars on Earth when he was speaking in parables: The Pharisees and Saducees. He spoke in parables specifically because “it is not given for them to understand.”

IOW, he was hiding his truth from them deliberately, because the Father had called for them to be spiritually blinded until the time of fullness of the gentiles. (see Romans 10 and 11)


49 posted on 04/09/2012 9:10:26 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
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To: editor-surveyor

-—’His’ doctrines are from scripture, except for the junk that he retained from the Roman ‘church.’-—

But Luther was a fallible man, so his authority to interpret Scripture is the same as mine or yours.

So now we’re down to your assertion that the Bible alone is the sole rule of faith, for Christians.

First question: Which Bible?

Second question: Where in the Bible does the Bible tell us that the Protestant Bible is the sole rule of faith?


50 posted on 04/10/2012 4:58:28 AM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas (Viva Christo Rey!)
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To: BipolarBob

-—Sidestepped the valid points in my post.——

The sale of indulgences?

The Church doesn’t claim that every priest is impeccable or infallible. Only the pope teaches infallibly, when he invokes his charism, or when the bishops meet in Council.

Infallibility
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07790a.htm

Myths about indulgences
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/myths-about-indulgences


51 posted on 04/10/2012 6:23:41 AM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas (Viva Christo Rey!)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
Still straining at gnats and swallowing camels? More semantics. "Only the pope teaches infallibility" I'm more interested about what God says about people claiming infallibility and being the Vicar Son of God on earth.

13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

All of your popes have been and are fallible. The history of some of them is quite astonishing.

52 posted on 04/10/2012 6:47:10 AM PDT by BipolarBob (Life's too short to fish with a dead cricket.)
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To: BipolarBob

Which Bible is the true Bible?

What infallible authority provides the answer?

Where is your doctrine of “the Bible alone” in your incomplete Bible?

What is the difference between impeccability and the Catholic doctrine of papal infallibility?


53 posted on 04/10/2012 6:59:04 AM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas (Viva Christo Rey!)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
Which Bible is the true Bible? I prefer the New King James version myself. I study different versions for comparison though. They all convey the same wonderful message.

What infallible authority provides the answer? The answer to what? I study the Word of God and pray for guidance - the same as people have done for millennium.

Where is your doctrine of “the Bible alone” in your incomplete Bible? Deut. 4:2 Ye shall not add into the Word which I command you neither shall ye diminish ought from it". Prov. 30:5,6 Every Word of God is pure. He is a shield unto them that put their trust in Him.Add thou not unto His words, lest He reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

What is the difference between impeccability and the Catholic doctrine of papal infallibility? Who cares? More semantics.

54 posted on 04/10/2012 7:26:31 AM PDT by BipolarBob (Yes I backed over the vampire, But I swear I did not see it in my rearview mirror.)
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To: BipolarBob

The KJV, like all Protestant Bibles, is missing several Old Testament books.

As a believer in Luther’s dogma of “the Bible ALONE,” you lack an infallible authority to determine the cannon of Scripture. As R.C. Sproul once said, the Protestant Bible is “a fallible collection of infallible books.”

Then how do you know, infallibly, whether the Protestant cannon is correct? It’s logically impossible, given your presuppositions, and Luther’s dogma collapses.

Your proof-texts for Luther’s doctrine of the Bible ALONE prove nothing. You are pre-supposing the validity of his teaching.

Defendining “the Bible ALONE” and defending Christianity are NOT the same thing.


55 posted on 04/10/2012 7:47:28 AM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas (Viva Christo Rey!)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas

I care not whether your Bible has more OT books than mine. It’s not a contest. Those books may/may not be credible. I’m not losing any sleep over it. You talk of Luther and RC Sproul, let them work out their own salvation. I didn’t quote them. You are hung up on infallibility and that is what your church wants. For you to need them. I need Christ and Him alone. There is still time if you are willing. God calls “ Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not her plagues”. Read your Bible and not your church literature and walk away from the rituals, statuary, St. Christopher charms, prayer beads, rosaries and amulets. Meet God, one on one and see Him differently.


56 posted on 04/10/2012 8:05:32 AM PDT by BipolarBob (Yes I backed over the vampire, But I swear I did not see it in my rearview mirror.)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas

Nice pile of straw!

Are you a horse, or a goat?
.


57 posted on 04/10/2012 9:03:46 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
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To: BipolarBob

——I care not whether your Bible has more OT books than mine. It’s not a contest. Those books may/may not be credible. I’m not losing any sleep over it.-——

So much for “the Bible alone.” In practice, it becomes “my doctrine alone.”

Hence the proliferation of Protestant sects with often contradictory doctrines, all supposedly guided by the Holy Spirit/Truth.


58 posted on 04/10/2012 9:28:55 AM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas (Viva Christo Rey!)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas

I cannot speak for the proliferation of Protestant churches nor did I claim to. As for the Bible John 17:17 “Sanctify them through thy Truth, Thy Word is Truth.” Your church makes the Bible something lesser. It has to do this to claim the authority it desires. Claiming church authority verses that were wrote centuries before the Catholic church was in existence. Claiming papal Petrine authority when there is no evidence that the other apostles went to Peter for his supreme leadership skills or authority. Your church strains credulity for its many atrocities in its history. Perhaps it will once again climb to its former glory and cut BipolarBobs tongue out for being a heretic? You and your friends would gloat at my demise, but that’s okay, this world is losing its luster and my life is a small price to pay for my Master.


59 posted on 04/10/2012 10:35:44 AM PDT by BipolarBob (Yes I backed over the vampire, But I swear I did not see it in my rearview mirror.)
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To: BipolarBob

——Your church makes the Bible something lesser. It has to do this to claim the authority it desires.——

Didn’t you previously stated that you don’t lose any sleep over what books constitute Sacred Scripture? That doesn’t sound like an elevated view of Scripture.

We know the cannon of Scripture with certainty because an infallible source determined it.

If the Church that wrote, preserved and canonized the Bible is fallible, than the Bible would have to be fallible.

Protestantism saws off the branch it’s standing on.

At least the Catholic position is logically coherent. An infallible Church wrote, preserved and canonized Sacred Scripture.


60 posted on 04/10/2012 11:18:46 AM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas (Viva Christo Rey!)
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