What Are We To Make of the Anti-Catholics.

Self | Jan 8, 2011 | Natural Law

[Cronos]

God the Son gained our salvation by his death and resurrection; no one else did these things
God the Father planned our salvation, not man.
And God the Holy Spirit infused the very love of God into our hearts by his presence (cf. Rom. 5:5).

All that we do is respond with faith and obedience to God’s offer of grace in Christ. This is a lifelong commitment that we should grow in God's love. God’s grace grows within us as we trust in God more and follow his commandments. The final outcome of a life of faith and obedience is eternal life with God.

Acts 16:31 says, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved"
Romans 10:9: "If you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

The Church affirms the teaching of these texts. They are calling us to decisive trust in Christ. Trust in Christ is essential to salvation.

[Cronos]

Valid enough, RM. Since it is an ethno-religious group, it has different connotations.

[Cronos]

No, he was not excommunicated -- whatever gave you that idea? Cutie :-P converted of his own accord to the Episcopal Church (you know the one with the gay and lesbian "married" clergy).

Cutie ;-P could have remained in the Catholic Church by foregoing being a priest. I have a grand-uncle in my family who was a priest, but asked to be allowed to resign his post to marry a woman -- that was granted. The Catholic Church realises we are all human and if a priest wants to leave the priesthood to marry, so be it. Cutie had that option, but he didn't exercise it.

The Catholic Church also allows married men to become priests (but not priests to get married) in the Eastern Catholic Churches.

[Cronos]

laicization and formal excommunication are two different things. the former is reserved to the Pope and is a long process with many steps. It may be done on the request of the priest for instance by a priest who wishes to leave and get married. According to published reports of which there are dozens of existing threads here, this priest did NOT choose to go that route but simply left without even, according to his bishop, asking or telling his superior of his decision.

[bkaycee]

Here’s the main point — Catholics believe Christ died knowing that his death wouldn’t “cover” all believers.

John 6:37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. 38 "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40"For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

The scripture clearly states that ALL those drawn by the father will become believers and Christ will lose none.

Hence the verse about how many will say “Lord, Lord,” and be surprised when they’re denied heaven. Many believe that the cup Christ begged to be delivered from before his death was not the Crucifixion but the fact that not all sinners would be saved by his death. (That last part is not Catholic dogma, just something written by a Catholic)

Matt 7:21" Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Those rejected were NEVER known by Christ, were never real Christians. They were tares posing as believers, most likely self deluded into thinking rituals and forms of Godliness was a means to Heaven and did not have a saving Faith (trust in Christ's work and substitutionary atonement alone).

[bkaycee]

Acts 16:31 says, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved" Romans 10:9: "If you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

The Church affirms the teaching of these texts. They are calling us to decisive trust in Christ. Trust in Christ is essential to salvation.

Trust in Christ is Essential? But not enough?

[Cronos]

Trust in Christ is essential, yet scripture also tells us to repent and be saved, to hear the word of God and be saved, that love is also essential. We need all of these things — it is not “only”, yet remember, I repeat, without Christ’s sacrifice, the essential component, all of our hearing, repenting, love would be useless, worse than useless. Christ’s sacrifice is what saved us.

[Mad Dawg]

Trust in Christ is Essential? But not enough?

Try this, since what you say is clearly unsatisfactory (to me, anyway.)

Trust (faith) is dynamic in some respects. It doesn't just sit there on your chest like a competency badge: Marksmanship, First Aid, Faithfulness. If one is just sitting there vegging, faith is probably not what's going on.

We had a wonderful Epiphany (three kings day -- but that's not the half of it) sermon. The friar said that the faith of the wisemen caused them to travel after what was strange and foreign -- even unattainable. It was a star, for crying out loud!

And the star led them to a strange king and then to what has to be one of the world's strangest gatherings - the traditional (but see Isaiah 1:3a) ox and ass, some shepherds, a carpenter and his young wife, and a baby -- all in some kind of stable.

And then they have to go home by another way -- not even the pleasure of retracing one's steps and saying, "Oh, yes, I remember this."

Even we, who say such extravagant things about Mary, say she sought her Son anxiously.

So I would offer that, in and through 'trust in Christ,' we are called and enabled to journey, to move, to leave things behind, to go home another way, to travel light, and to follow strange things, things utterly outside our world yet revealed in it.

So in some sense the opposition between 'trust in Christ' and other stuff is as bogus as the opposition between opening one's mouth to receive food and swallowing that food. If we just ate a carrot seed, we'd starve. But when it grows, it's good food.

Just a thought.

[fr_freak]

Quick, old wise one. What was the title and context of this thread? Do you think any one that does not drink your kool- aid has any reason to be insulted?

We're talking about your post in particular, not the whole thread. But since you brought it up, why would anybody be insulted by the title of the thread, unless they were anti-Catholic? If there were a thread called "What are we to make of the anti-Mormons?" I wouldn't be the least bit insulted even though I'm not Mormon, because I'm not anti-Mormon, either. And if you are insulted because you are, indeed, anti-Catholic, then maybe you deserve to be insulted.

[seemoAR]

I am unable to carry on with this folly. I wasn’t anti Catholic. I won’t be wasting any more time with you.

I do pity you however.

[Mad Dawg]

I wasn’t anti Catholic.

But are you now, or have you ever been UNCLE Catholic? Hah? Answer me that. Hah!

Let the record show that the witness is placing his face in his palm while shaking his head. Clearly he is overwhelmed with the incisive brilliance of this question.]

No further questions, your honor.

[Mad Dawg]

Damn, I’m good.

[MarkBsnr]

Anti-Catholics are of two types:

There are a few more such as the useful idiots of those who support the main harpies, but I think that you have more than adequately described the bulk of anti Catholics.

[MarkBsnr]

More single verses of the Gospel of Paul? Any teachings of Christ in your Christianity?

[MarkBsnr]

Thick skin is required for "open" Religion Forum debate and the RM must have exceptionally thick skin.

For obvious reasons. Still, this RF is moderated as well as I've seen before and better than most. I hear tell of a change of RMs. Could that be true?

[MarkBsnr]

I happen to know that more than 9 out of 10 Catholics today are against burning at the stake for the heresy.

I'd like to see the figures. Is this Rasmussen, Zogby, Gallup or Pew?

[MarkBsnr]

What is different about the Jesuit and Dominican Orders?”

“Met any Albigensians lately?”

[MarkBsnr]

Damn, I’m good.

A tad punchy, though...

[fr_freak]

I do pity you however.

Of course you do. I'm sure you pity anyone who isn't you.

[Religion Moderator]

Are you offering?