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Posted on 04/18/2010 9:49:35 PM PDT by Judith Anne
I seriously wonder about some FReepers, sometimes. Any other person accused of a crime would be defended by every FReeper as being innocent until proven guilty by a court of law. I've seen whole threads written by men who have been accused of child abuse by ex-wives out to deny them their visitation rights or to wrest more money out of them. These men are rightly indignant, and furious about the unjust accusations that cannot be proven but are never withdrawn.
Yet where are those FReepers when a PRIEST is accused? Where is the presumption of innocence? Suddenly, every accusation becomes a verdict, and not only the accused but his entire organization and all its adherents are held responsible.
I can only wonder what some of these so-called conservatives (who so faithfully defend the Constitution) would do, if THEY were the ones accused! It is a nightmare for any man -- all of you know how even the accusation stains the man forever, even if it is proven false!
Not only that, many here assert that the problems of 30, 40 and even 50 years ago must be tried in the media TODAY!
Remember the Duke rape case? There are more similarities than differences here. The priests are accused, nifonged, and instead of being defended, they are vilified!
What other man of you could stand under the weight of such an accusation trumpeted by the press, and come out whole? None! And such accusations made, LONG after the statute of limitations has passed, sometimes even after the accused is dead and buried for YEARS -- are YOU one of those who automatically, reflexively, spitefully, and gleefully act as judge, jury, and executioner?
Women! What if it were YOUR HUSBAND, YOUR BROTHER, YOUR FATHER, YOUR UNCLE, YOUR SON who was accused? Wouldn't you want the best defense possible? Wouldn't YOU believe in their innocence? Wouldn't YOU help protect your loved ones as much as possible? And yet, YOU JUDGE THE CHURCH FOR DOING WHAT YOU WOULD DO?
Shame! Vast shame! On all who have sinned against the innocent!
The only FReeper with whom I’ve had an ongoing discussion on this thread received the reply. Whether or not stating that I “can’t catch a break” is overrating oneself is self evident on the thread.
No one is denying that atrocities were committed by evil and irreligious men on both sides of the various reformation wars. The horrors visited upon the Waldensians were an everyday event in the campaigns of Cromwell against the Scottish and Irish Catholics and were similar to the those committed by the Protestant Armies of Sweden across Bavaria. The conduct of either side justified the reciprocity by the other then or now.
I took no offense at RegulatorCountry's retort. We have a long history of tin-for-tat jibes. And I am frequently as guilty as most of hubris on these threads. It is all in good humor and would probably be a lot more fun if accompanied by some malt beverages.
Was Oliver Cromwell’s army fielded literally by the church? No. Were the papal armies? Yes.
It’s a distinction with a difference. Cromwell’s excesses were fuelled in part by widespread outrage over treatment of the Waldenses, he returned the atrocities in kind. Is this right, is it Christian? No, but words mean things and actions have consequences.
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
– Isaiah 9:6
Catholics are in no position to condemn ANYONE for inhumane treatment of others judging by their history.
As a matter of fact Cromwell reported directly to the head of the Church of England.
That doesn't absolve or sanctify the atrocities committed by the Protestants. The ungodly on both sides committed horrible acts in the name of God.
Sensible, and what I expected. Thank you.
MB: Post the Triune formula according to Paul, if you would. You cannot, for he does not have one.
What's that got to do with the RC Church doctrine and teaching on Mary? Plenty of Scripture about Paul's teaching concerning the Godhood being composed of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit have been posted.
Now, show us Scripture that teaches us that Mary was perpetually virgin, that she was immaculately conceived, that she ascended like Christ, and that she is ruler of hell (as in the prayer posted earlier), queen of heaven, Queen of Purgatory, mediatrix ,...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2495846/posts?page=1339#1339
Yes, the Catholic Church does indeed teach that it is the only way to heaven and those who don’t follow it go to hell and you just confirmed that.
Thank you for making my point.
Yeah. They don’t own me and I have no use for blackmail by a church hanging my eternal salvation over my head as a bargaining chip to force membership in their denomination.
Salvation is through Christ alone, not membership in any denomination, especially one that uses those tactics.
(You may not be aware of the fact that Paul wrote 2 Corinthians)
2 Corinthians 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.
Cromwell was no Royalist, he was at loggerheads with the monarchy the entire time. He was a staunch Parliamentarian, known more popularly and derisively as a Roundhead. He was a Republican, not a monarchist.
Beginning about 1640, tensions rose between King Charles I and Parliament. Parliament had a problem with Charles raising taxes without their approval. Members of Parliament were troubled to the point of outrage by Charles's association with Catholicism, particularly his queen, Henrietta Maria, who was herself Catholic. Relations between King and Parliament were severely strained, leading to the outbreak of war, the English Civil War, in August of 1642. The Parliamentarian Cromwell raised an army in his own home county, and after a string of victories over the King's armies, was eventually elevated to the rank of Lieutenant General.
Parliament's army eventually defeated the King and his supporters, the Royalists, and Cromwell emerged from the Civil War as an heroic figure in England. By the late 1640s, Cromwell became the de facto leader of the Parliamentarian army, and he consolidated this into one miliary force known as the New Model Army. After Charles I was executed in January 1649, Cromwell's influence and leadership of the military meant he was a very powerful political force, and so he assumed the prestigious new position of first chairman of the new Council of State.
To imply that Cromwell was acting at the behest of the Church of England is ludicrous as a result. He no more acted at church behest than did Winston Churchill.
Compare this to armies raised by the Vatican itself, and sent against the supposed heretic Pietists, Moravians, Albigensians/Cathars and Waldensians ... there is no equivalence whatsoever. That is the distinction with a difference to which I referred.
The Church does not send anyone to hell. People choose hell for themselves.
Yes, and that’s the only verse I can find where Paul gives a benediction like that.
Did he mention, in that benediction, that he was writing it with his own hand? Because I noticed that sometimes he did that. Was it because some of the so-called Pauline epistles were forgeries? What about the Paul letters that were NOT put in the canon?
Do you really believe that? Latin was the language of the upper class, unknown to the majority of the world. But for centuries much of the languages people spoke were written down. Old English was written from the 5th century to the mid-12th century.
German is a perfect example. There was no written German language until late in the Church created Hoch Deutsch, or high German.
That is ridiculous. Proto Germanic language was written (albeit crudely) from the 1st century B.C.
And if the church wanted to "maintain the fidelity of the language" it would have transcribed its Bibles in Greek and Hebrew, not Latin.
In fact, translating into English could be fatal. Catholic priest William Tyndale, wanting "every ployboy to know the Scriptures," translated the Bible into everyday English from the original Greek, bypassing the church-sanctioned Latin Vulgate
And he printed his Bibles small so that they would be portable, less expensive and more widely available. For his efforts, the papacy executed him as a heretic in 1536.
That's how much Rome wanted to keep the Bibles out of the hands of ployboys.
Even with my limited knowledge of Spanish I could detect significant differences between the works
And I'll bet you understood more of that Spanish than you do Latin.
I don't even have a clue as to the subtleties of cognate and dialect.
Have more faith in the Holy Spirit's ability to preserve God's word and intent.
Are these RCs even aware they are exhibiting their almost total lack of knowledge of the Scriptures?
Now, show us Scripture that teaches us that Mary was perpetually virgin, that she was immaculately conceived, that she ascended like Christ, and that she is ruler of hell (as in the prayer posted earlier), queen of heaven, Queen of Purgatory, mediatrix ,..
Or that she the "Dispensatrix of All Grace."
That one reveals that the papacy believes Mary has not only displaced Jesus Christ; she has displaced God.
Going from Greek and Aramaic to Latin and then to English makes the English translations using the Vulgate a translation of a translation, meaning there's even more potential for information and clear meaning to be lost.
It's foolish to take that extra step when the original texts are available to use.
Catholics claim fidelity to the Bible and their church executed someone who adhered to that so that the common man could read it himself.
Nice......
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