Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: ejonesie22

First of all, throwing the label “polytheism” is just name-calling and intellectually shallow. To Jews and Muslims, faiths with strict monotheism, the Christian Trinity is polytheistic.

Thus the term is relative with no fixed definition.

Secondly, if we’re polytheistic so is the Bible since it clearly describes the existence of entities called gods who are ruled by Eloheim or YHWH. This is why scholars describe the earliest Hebrew thought as using the Divine Council model.

The evidences that the Divine Council is authentic early biblical thought is so overwhelming that most legitimate religious scholars freely admit it. Here’s a representative sample. None of these sources are LDS btw.

The Anchor Bible Dictionary. (6 Volumes). Editor-in-Chief: David Noel Freedman. (Doubleday, New York). Copyright © 1992 by Doubleday. 1:249-252; 835; 2:214-217; 3:238,302; 4:43,922,1004-1010; 5:986; 6:129,156-157,510-511;
The Triumph of Elohim. From Yahwisms to Judaisms. Ed. Diana Vikander Edelman. (William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, Grand Rapids, Michigan). © 1995 Kok Pharos Publishing House, Kampen, the Netherlands. This edition published 1996 through special arrangement with Kok Pharos by William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company. pp.28 f.2, 30-31,36-38,40-43,60-63,65,71,80,91;
The Early History of God. Yahweh and Other Deities in Ancient Israel. Mark S. Smith. (Harper and Row Publishers, San Francisco). Copyright © 1990 Mark S. Smith. pp. 9-10,26,101,114 e#138,165;
The New Interpreter’s Bible. (In 12 Volumes). (Abingdon Press, Nashville). Vol 1 © 1994. Vol 4 © 1996. Both by Abingdon Press. 1:272-274; 4:347,792,1006-1007,1035, 1093;
The Illustrated Bible Dictionary. In three parts. (Inter-Varsity Press. Tyndale House Publishers. Hodder and Stoughton. Sydney and Auckland). © The Universities and Colleges Christian Fellowship, 1980. p. 1474;
The Interpreter’s One-Volume Commentary on the Bible. Including the Apocrypha, with General Articles. Ed. Charles M. Layman. (Abingdon Press, Nashville.) Copyright © 1971 by Abingdon Press. 14th Printing, 1992. pp. 285,263,279;
Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament. (15 Volumes). Editors: G. Johannes Botterweck, Helmer Ringgren & Heinz Josef Fabry. (William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, Grand Rapids, Michigan). Copyrights © 1974-1997 by William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company. 1:254,258,282; 5:519-520;
Theological Dictionary of the New Testament. (10 Volumes). Eds: Gerhard Kittle & Gerhard Friedrich. (William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company. Grand Rapids, Michigan). Copyright © 1964-1976 by William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company. 8:347-349;
The HarperCollins Bible Dictionary. Gen. Ed. J. Achtemeier. (Harper, San Francisco). Copyright © 1985,1996 by The Society of Biblical Literature. pp. 276,1054;
The Jerome Biblical Commentary. Edited by Raymond E. Brown, Joseph A. Fitzmyer and Roland E. Murphy. Two volumes in one. (Prentice-Hall, Inc. Englewood Cliffs, New Jersey). © 1968 by Prentice-Hall, Inc. 2:20 (1); 6:74 (8); 16:17 (8); 22:9 (A); 35:26 (6), 46 (1), 74 (Pref-2), 98 (Pref-2,6-7);
Dictionary of the Bible. Ed. James Hastings. Rev. Edition by Frederick C. Grant and H. H. Rowley. (Charles Scribner’s Sons, New York). Copyright © 1963 T&T Clark and Charles Scribner’s Sons. pp. 32,134,334;
A History of God. The 4000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Karen Armstrong. (Alfred A. Knopf, New York. 1994). Copyright © 1993 by Karen Armstrong. pp. 50-51;
Mercer Dictionary of the Bible. Gen. Ed. Watson E. Mills. (Mercer University Press. Macon, Georgia). Copyright © 1990 Mercer University Press, Macon, Georgia. Second and Corrected Printing, July 1991. pp. 176-177, 581,845;
New International Dictionary of Old Testament Theology and Exegesis. Gen. Ed. William A. VanGemeren. (Zondervan Publishing House, Grand Rapids, Michigan). Copyright © 1997 by William A. VanGemeren. 1:375-376;
The Expositor’s Bible Commentary. (12 Volumes) With the NIV. Gen. Ed. Frank E. Gæbelein. The Zondervan NIV Bible Library. 2.5.1. (Zondervan Publishing House, Grand Rapids, Michigan). Copyright © 1989-1997 The Zondervan Corporation. Job. Intro 8; 1:6-12,20; 34:1; Ps 82:1;
Dictionary of the Bible. John L. MacKenzie. S.J. (Collier Books, MacMillan Publishing Company, New York). Copyright © 1965 by MacMillan Publishing Company. pp. 30, 316, 830;
A New Standard Bible Dictionary. Edited by Melancthon W. Jacobus, Elbert C. Lane & Andrew C. Zenos. (Funk and Wagnalls Company, New York). Third Revised Edition. Copyright 1936 by Funk & Wagnalls Company. pp. 46-47;
The Religious Background of the Bible. J. N. Schofield. (Thomas Nelson and Sons Ltd, London: 1944). p. 181;
The Eerdmans Bible Dictionary. Rev. Ed. Allen C. Myers. (William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, Grand Rapids, Michigan). Copyright © 1987 by Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co. p. 55;
The New Layman’s Bible Commentary. In One Volume. Ed: G. C. D. Howley; F. F. Bruce & H. L. Ellison. (Regency Reference Library. Zondervan Publishing House, Grand Rapids, Michigan. Copyright © 1979 by Pickering & Inglis LTD, Glasgow Scotland under the title Bible Commentary for Today. pp. 308, 618, 659;
The New Bible Dictionary. Organizing Editor: J.D. Douglas. (William. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company. Grand Rapids, Michigan). © The Inter-Varsity Fellowship, 1962. p. 1206;
Judaism and Christian Beginnings. Samuel Sandmel (Oxford University Press, New York: 1978). Copyright © 1978 by Samuel Sandmel. pp. 169, 171, 173.

You’re welcome.


186 posted on 03/14/2010 7:02:44 AM PDT by Edward Watson
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 185 | View Replies ]


To: Edward Watson
Thus the term is relative with no fixed definition.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/polytheism

Polytheism: belief in OR worship of more than one god.

One of the things that always fascinates me about those trying to disprove the truth is how deep they have to go to try and redefine things.

You give a long list of citations to show that something without a “fixed definition”, which of course it does.

There is either one entity with the power and title of god, or more than one, and if you believe (not just worship which is a LDS loophole that is often played) that there are more than one then you are, by definition, polytheistic. Any arguments otherwise are intellectually dishonest and an attempt to hide a fact that in essence I cannot see why it needs to be hidden. If it is part of ones beliefs why not stand up for it.

Unless of course these are reasons to do otherwise, which I find odd since the LDS very clearly believe that there is more than one entity with the power of a god. If there weren't then what is it with the arguments about achieving godhood yourselves?

Anyways, in as much as you post a number of citations, a few I have even read, that discuss the older traditions of many gods and god by committee that was a part of the Jewish tradition in its early history recorded in the Bible all of that was superseded and dismissed by the words of God himself to his people as time moved on and are not current beliefs, nor have they been for a few thousand years. Modern Judaism and by relationship Chritianinty are distinctly Monotheistic systems. God told us who he was and that he was it, there were none other. Toss your false gods and idols aside whom ever they maybe, there is only one God and he is all we need.

Isaiah 44:6-8 (King James Version)

6Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
7And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them.
8Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Hard to argue with God when he is that clear about things, though I am sure you will try...

187 posted on 03/14/2010 7:52:27 AM PDT by ejonesie22 (Palin bashers on freerepublic, like a fart in Church...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 186 | View Replies ]

To: Edward Watson; ejonesie22

3 points. Which biblical reference(s) are you referring to in those books? Easier to verify context.

Second, you mistake the ‘divine council’ equaling the 3 separate gods united (only) in purpose, when in fact most non-LDS, non Jewish scholars see it as a reflection of the Trinity. 3 personages in one essence.

Third, some of the scholars are reputable, some are not, and none would be considered conservative Christian.


198 posted on 03/14/2010 1:33:08 PM PDT by reaganaut (Don't mind me, I did a little to much LDS in the 80's)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 186 | View Replies ]

To: Edward Watson; ejonesie22

One more point, only a few would be considered recent (or scholarly) enough to be used as citations in an academic paper.

The rule in Biblical Studies and Ancient History tends to be don’t use anything over 20 years old.

And K. Armstrong’s bias makes her a questionable source for many.


200 posted on 03/14/2010 1:39:33 PM PDT by reaganaut (Don't mind me, I did a little to much LDS in the 80's)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 186 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson