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To: Edward Watson; reaganaut
No, I stand by my statement. My church has NEVER taught that women are inferior. Your arguments are just strawmen - citing the writings of LDS leaders, especially those of the 19th century, does NOT make LDS doctrine.

The basic fact that throughout the 19th century your apostles and prophets considered women/wives no different than cattle means that fundamentally your ABSOLUTE assertion that lds NEVER taught women to be inferior. Once polygamy faded away, that inferiority just found release in different outlet.

As I’ve pointed out repeatedly over the years; LDS doctrine is only what is found in our Scriptures and in official proclamations by the LDS leadership. The same things indubitably holds true in your church and in ALL OTHER churches.

Just because it may be written down (and there are a lot of things the LDS don't follow) doesn't mean the practice doesn't happen. APOSTLE McConkie stated ""woman's primary place is in the home, where she is to rear children and abide by the righteous counsel of her husband". At age twelve, boys become members of the Aaronic, or lesser priesthood, and at nineteen become eligible for the Melchezedek, or higher priesthood. Women are, of course, excluded from the priesthood. This practice in effect says that a woman's prepubescent son is more qualified to advise her than she is to advise him. But never inferior eh eddie.

And yet, I see strawmen and non sequiturs in most of your arguments. “outrageously egotistical and sexist”? That’s an argument without foundation. So today’s moral sensibilities are eternal truths and will not be viewed as naive and ignorant by our descendants hundreds of years from now?

Just like the eternal polygamy was until the prophet saw the 'light' eh. Since you are picking my “outrageously egotistical and sexist” out of context, lets put it back into context shall we. The whole quote is
To "think no more about taking another wife than I do of buying a cow." is outrageously egotistical and sexist.
So it is apparent that you are trying to weave a strawman NOW by changing your story to say it Kimball's "moral sensibilities" LOL, sorry eddie, save your time and stop digging.

What does usage of prescription drugs by women have to do with the belief they are treated as inferior? There are enough stresses in women’s lives, especially LDS women with the emphasis on taking time every month to visit and provide service to each other, to justify taking medication.

Sooooo, it is ok that LDS women ABUSE medications. Lets look into just what medications eddie. Studies in Utah show women leading men in depression by more than 2x. Utah #1 in the US in antidepressant-drug use, notably Prozac® and lds women are also 2x likely to be abusers. Womens choices are controlled by men - their entire life. She learns that she absolutely cannot enter the highest heavenly kingdom without a temple-married husband. She is totally dependent upon her husband because:
• Her husband will lead her by hand "through the veil" to celestial existence,
• Her role in heaven will be to continue forever bearing offspring for him as one of his wives.
• She knows there is no approved escape from this God-decreed, interminable destiny for females, because it is the system that existed for gods in pre-existent worlds prior to this earth, and will exist without end in the future for her, her husband-god and vast numbers of other gods.

As for using the word “never” - I use it when I’m absolutely certain of what I’m saying. I don’t pretend my church hasn’t changed some of its doctrines over the years - it has and I don’t find doctrinal modification to be fatal when it corrects a misperception.

License for intellectual dishonesty?

172 posted on 03/13/2010 9:22:38 AM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Godzilla

Baloney.

Equating polygamy with a perceived inferiority of women is an unwarranted assumption.

I find it amusing that you would know more about what *I* believe than me.

My wife stays at home while I run my business. I don’t think she is inferior. Are you now claiming anyone who agrees with McConkie thinks homemakers are inferior? Furthermore, since when has McConkie’s writings been Scripture to the LDS? Another strawman.

Why do LDS women in Utah have a higher than average use of anti-depressants? What exactly is the cause? Your constant psychoanalysis of the negative self-image of LDS women is highly dubious since the most likely cause is stress relief. Since Utah is predominantly LDS, its alcohol consumption is dead last in the US. Why? Because the church expressly prohibits alcohol whereas anti-depressants have no explicit prohibition. So, to an LDS wishing to relieve stress while abiding by the church’s teachings; what others normally take to relieve stress, namely alcohol, is a non-starter but anti-depressants work just as well and carries no explicit ban. Get a prescription and viola! Stress relief via Zoloft.

Are you honest enough to admit I’m right?

It is stressful raising large number of children (friends of ours who are Evangelicals have five children - the wife is a homemaker, a registered nurse, but is taking psychotropic medication - she told us why and it has nothing to do with feeling inferior - it’s for stress). LDS women have limited time for relaxation, shoulder a greater burden of raising the children due to the father’s constant absence from the home, lack time to hang out with friends.

Heck, I was supposed to hang out with a buddy last night but had to cancel since my wife wanted to spend time with me. When we go on family vacations and I want to go to the East Coast and she wants to go to California we compromise; we go to California.

As one who has lived within the LDS faith for my entire adult life, I can’t think of any LDS women who think they are inferior to men. I know my wife will just laugh in my face if I ever suggested it (pssst, don’t tell her).


184 posted on 03/14/2010 6:39:13 AM PDT by Edward Watson
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