Posted on 02/22/2010 9:47:13 PM PST by restornu
Since ancient scribes were so totally accurate in their work, how could any mistakes ever enter into the Bible?
There is a myth among some circles that ancient scribes were so incredibly cautious, making sure that every letter was perfectly copied, that they never produced any mistakes when copying the manuscripts, and thus all ancient manuscripts agree with each other.
This is entirely bogus - a deceptive lie or statement of shear stupidity. The great Hebrew scholar,
Emmanuel Tov, for example, has discussed numerous scribal problems in Hebrew manuscripts.
In a 1994 lecture entitled "The Hebrew Bible and the Dead Sea Scrolls," Dr. Tov explains what we learned about ancient scribes and Hebrew manuscripts with the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls:
Let me explain the importance of having discovered these documents from a very early period relating to the Hebrew Bible.
Before these discoveries were made in 1947, the earliest sources for the Hebrew Bible were the texts found in the Cairo Geniza.
The Geniza is a storeroom in which discarded writings considered to be holy or that contained the name of God were placed [when they were worn out].
The earliest of these document are from the eighth century of the Common Era [A.D.].
Until 1947 we had no ancient records in Hebrew of the Hebrew Bible.
You might say we had no really good evidence of what the Hebrew Bible looked like, until the discoveries of Qumran.
It turns out that our knowledge was rather good, but we had no evidence in our hands.
So, the first time that we were able to see what an ancient Hebrew Bible looked like was after these documents were found near the Dead Sea.
We now know what is meant by a copy of the Hebrew Bible from early periods.
We now know that the text was written in a scroll, and when we say scroll, we really mean something which was rolled.
We mean that these were sheets of leather sewn to each other or glued to each other, on each of which you could have a number of columns of writing.
Each column is what we would probably call a page, and so normally you'd have three or four columns on each sheet, with a fixed number of lines.
We now see what the text looked like.
We see that there are scribes who wrote well, and we see that there are scribes who were rather sloppy.
One of the scribes was a terrible scribe, the scribe who wrote the Isaiah scroll.
When I say terrible, I mean terrible.
This is a scribe who made a mistake in every second, third, or fourth -- well, let's say every fifth word.
Already the second word of that scroll has a mistake.
It starts with the vision of Isaiah, and in that word Yisha'yahu the third letter, the 'ayin, he simply forgot, because this is a guttural letter, which he (like I) did not pronounce, so he just wrote yod shin yod hay vav and then afterwards when he realized what he did, he, or a reader, put the 'ayin above the line.
Mistakes in guttural letters in that scroll abound. Words are omitted.
Words are added.
Words are added in the margin.
This is sloppy handwriting.
We simply must remember that this is a human scribe of blood and flesh who wrote this scroll and hence produced a product which, in his case, was not a good product.
(Emmanuel Tov, "The Hebrew Bible and the Dead Sea Scrolls," Seventh Annual F.A.R.M.S. Lecture, Feb. 20, 1994, Document TOV-94, Provo, Utah: FARMS, 1994, pp. 6-7; see also Emmanuel Tov, Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible, 2nd edition, Fortress Press, 2001)
It's not just that some scribes were sloppy.
They were condemned as a class by the Lord for their unrighteousness ("Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!" in Matt. 23:39).
Evidence supports the idea that changes were deliberately made due to their religious bias.
Some early Christians reported that Hebrew scriptures had been changed to take out some clear prophecies of Christ, which was an entirely logical but corrupt response from those who kept the manuscripts and hated Christianity.
One thing is clear: there are numerous variants between the different ancient texts, both in Greek and Hebrew.
While the manuscripts agree with each other in many ways, there are thousands of differences due to the vagaries of human activity.
Scribes were imperfect.
They were not infallible.
Their products cannot possibly be considered infallible, perfect and complete.
One can ignore the abundant evidence, but it's time to recognize that only God is the final and perfect authority, and that's why we need continuing revelation from his authorized prophets and apostles.
The Bible is scripture and needs to be studied with faith, but also with a recognition that it is a book printed by humans, translated by humans, copied by humans, and even originally written by inspired humans, none of whom were infallible. Mistakes happen. Errors creep in.
Translations create unintended meanings. This is mortality, and these kind of things happen.
Thank goodness there is a mechanism to overcome these problems when it's critical, and that mechanism is continuing revelation, which was meant to be an integral part of the Church of Jesus Christ from the beginning, and which has been restored in our day.
Ecumenic threads are closed to antagonism.
To antagonize is to incur or to provoke hostility in others.
Unlike the “caucus” threads, the article and reply posts of an “ecumenic” thread can discuss more than one belief, but antagonism is not tolerable.
More leeway is granted to what is acceptable in the text of the article than to the reply posts. For example, the term “gross error” in an article will not prevent an ecumenical discussion, but a poster should not use that term in his reply because it is antagonistic. As another example, the article might be a passage from the Bible which would be antagonistic to Jews. The passage should be considered historical fact and a legitimate subject for an ecumenic discussion. The reply posts however must not be antagonistic.
Contrasting of beliefs or even criticisms can be made without provoking hostilities. But when in doubt, only post what you are “for” and not what you are “against.” Or ask questions.
Ecumenical threads will be moderated on a “where there’s smoke, there’s fire” basis. When hostility has broken out on an “ecumenic” thread, I’ll be looking for the source.
Therefore “anti” posters must not try to finesse the guidelines by asking loaded questions, using inflammatory taglines, gratuitous quote mining or trying to slip in an “anti” or “ex” article under the color of the “ecumenic” tag.
Posters who try to tear down other’s beliefs or use subterfuge to accomplish the same goal are the disrupters on ecumenic threads and will be booted from the thread and/or suspended.
Excellent rules to avoid the normal name-calling in other forums.
>a deceptive lie or statement of shear stupidity.
So... we’re not wool-gathering?
{That should be sheer.}
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/shear
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sheer
Like your tagline you can have all of my errors!:)
The actual words in a given translation of the Bible aren’t infallible; the spiritual truths they convey, are. Those really don’t vary from translation to translation.
Why is it so hard to be cordail and still express your opinion?
Why not think of it this way is that the Lord is standing near by during your discussion.
Fixed it for you...is that was was meant? Just curious.
I don’t know Prof Emanuel Tov you might want to write him!
He was one of the editors of the Hebrew University Bible Project. He is a member of the editorial board of the journal Dead Sea Discoveries, and served on the Academic committee of the Magnes Press.
Co-founder and chairman (1991-2000) of the Dead Sea Scrolls Foundation. Member of the Academic Committee of the Orion Center for the Study of the Dead Sea Scrolls. Senior Associate Fellow, Oxford Centre for Postgraduate Hebrew Studies. [4]
From 1990-2009 he served as the Editor-in-Chief of the international Dead Sea Scrolls Publication Project, which during those years produced 32 volumes of the series Discoveries in the Judean Desert as well as two concordances [5].
He also published a CD containing editions of all the non-biblical Qumran scrolls and a six-volume printed edition of the scrolls meant for the general public. [6]
Emanuel Tov is married to Lika (née Aa). They have three children
Seriously? But you will still use whatever portion of scripture of the Old and New Testament, when convenient?
Well, how convenient.
Aren’t you really invalidating your claim to the Bible, in any way, as it is so flawed. As such, how can it be trusted for it’s integrity.
Said integrity, is a perspective of subjective view and a foundation of baked bread which can easily be eaten by the birds or washed away in the tide.
What is your point? Really? Your answer is important as it is for posterity, so be sincere and introspect.
Sorry for the last paragraph, they are incongruent with your values, which shift like dunes in the Sahara.
Don’t mean to be so rough, but you really can’t have it both ways and still continue proudly claim your Christian-Lite Heritage.
Your link does not work.
As you probably know, the LDS religion depends on the theory of grave error in the New Testament, not the Old.
I'm just not seeing how this article is not being "slipped" in as being anti-integrity of Holy Scripture. Why should a healthy, open debate on this subject not be permitted? It is offensive to me, especially the last paragraph. Am I being too sensitive?
NO ONE can be held in esteem as an author above God! It’s HIS Word to us and HE’S Almighty. If anyone thinks that HE IS NOT CAPABLE of getting HIS Truth to us accurately is living in pride.
Go ahead, who ever your are - take the fall!
You are being antagonistic. If you wish to discuss the issues in an “open” Religion Forum format, then find a similar article and post it that way.
Don’t mean to be so rough...
No problem your original persona has worn off by now...
BTW you are on an ecumenical thread might read up on it!
Most of the words in the article are of a Prof Tov
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2457262/posts?page=11#11
This is typical for Lindsay. Trust me on this.
Not sure why you felt the need to post about Prof Emanuel Tov, his titles, and what he is a member of, etc., etc. . Is it that you are impressed by ‘man’ and want others to be, also?
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