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To: Pmary65
My views on Matthew 28:1 οψε δε σαββατων are explained here:

Daniel's Literal Translation and Commentary

 

The Later Sabbath After the Passover Sabbath

 

"Matthew 28:1 And the later of the Sabbaths, as it began to dawn on the first of the Sabbaths, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulcher" (DLT: torahtimes.org).

later...Sabbath: There were two Sabbaths in Passover week.  The annual Passover Sabbath was on Thursday, Nisan 15, and this was followed by the weekly Sabbath on Nisan 17.  The "later of the Sabbaths' refers to the weekly Sabbath.  "Later" is used in the sense of "former" and "later".  The former Sabbath was the annual Sabbath.  The later Sabbath was the weekly Sabbath.

first...Sabbath: The weekly Sabbath was also called the "first of the Sabbaths" on account of Leviticus 23:15, where instructions are given to count seven Sabbaths after the annual Passover Sabbath".

later: Οψε.  The proper definition of this word when used with the genitive case is later.  "The genitive with Οψε and μετ ολιγον  have become associated in meaning with  υστερον τουτων [later of these], προτερον τουτων [former of these]" (BLASS, 164.4, pg. 91, A Grammar of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature).  Thayer's Lexicon observes concerning the errant rendering "after": "but an examination of the instances just cited (and others) will show that they fail to sustain the rendering after." (DLC: torahtimes.org)

1. Mt. 28:1, Moulton, Robertson, and likely B-D-F justify the pragmatic sense "after" in Mat. 28:1 with the ablative. Moulton describes it best, "This use of οψε = after involves an ablative gen., "late from." (pg. 72, Prolegomena).

 

 2. Robertson, pg. 646, "It is a point, for exegesis, not for grammar, to decide."   The reason Roberston must say this is that it depends on the interpretation of the following gentive, and not on the lexical meaning of οψε, whose meaning is implicitly conceeded by the use of this argument NOT to be "after", and thus agrees with the main thesis of the editorial objection in Thayer's Lexicon.   As for the further claim of the editor that the ablative is not in fact used in examples provided, the jury is still out until the source contexts of those examples can be rechecked.

 

3. Daniel B. Wallace, "For example, the genitive of separation [i.e. ablative], a common idiom in the Attic dialect, is rare in the Koine.  It has been replaced, by and large, by απο + genitive" (pg. 163, Basics).  Απο, of course, means "from".

 

4. Therefore, "Later [from]" where "from" is the interpretation is a rare interpretation in Koine, and the Koine normally inserts the word απο to mean "from" in a case like this.

 

5. B-D-F allows οψε in the sense of υστερον τουτων [= later of these]

 

6.  For οψε BDAG provides an example "later than", but as we have seen the "than" is merely a dynamic equivalent gloss for the ablative "from" interpretation.  Therefore, we merely need to interpret the genitive the normal way, "Later of the Sabbaths" in Mt. 28:1 to arrive at the intelligible sense that it means the second of two sabbaths, i.e. the weekly Sabbath after Passover.

 

7.  Where Moulton and B-D-F (pg. 72) translates οψε των Τρωικων "at a late [stage] in the Trojan war" they are being less than accurate, since the Greek says "Trojan wars" in the plural.  So it would be "later of the Trojan wars" or "late in the Trojan wars"; it would be impossible to distinguish "late in" here from "later of".

 

8.  Liddell and Scott qualify the sense "after" with "perh." = "perhaps" showing they are less than certain.

 

9.  Liddell and Scott supply an example οψιγενης = later born, "later-born, i.e. younger", with notice that the prefix form, οψι, is from οψε.

 

10.  Moulton vol. III regarding οψε speculates, "A Latinism? Just After," (Nigel Turner) regarding Mt. 28:1.

 

11. Regardless of the personal opinion of any of these men, the evidence presented by them supports the sense "later of sabbaths".

 

12.  The following concordance shows that consistent sense can be made with "later":

 

Gen 24:11 toward a later time, when the women fetch

Exo 30:8 And when Aaron shall light the lamps later,

Isa 5:11 who linger till later, for wine will inflame them

Jer 2:23 And know what you did later.  Her voice cried

Mat 28:1 And the later of the sabbaths, at dawning for

Mar 11:19 And when later it became, he was going

Mar 13:35 cometh, either later, or at midnight, or at

Ant 16.218 he went at the later hour to refresh himself

Bdag 3.1 later of  the hour decided on;  from?

Bdag 3.2 he arrived later  of/in/from?  the mysteries;

Bdag 3.3 later of/in/from? these

Bdag 3.4 later of/in the fight

Blass 164.4a later of/in the Trojan wars

Blass 164.4b at a later hour

Blass 164.4c later of/in/from? the games

Thay 471 later of/in/from? the times of the king

 

13.  Notice "from?" in some examples. This is because those examples actually have to be checked in the original source again to see if the ablative is required to make sense of the context.

 

14.  Regardless of the personal opinion of these men, they show uncertainty and confusion over the pragmatic sense "after", and though a bit uncareful in their statements clearly appear to reject the lexical sense "after" leaving it to the lexical sense + ablative to yield that pragmatic sense.

 

-----------------------------

   

 

 

Daniel's Literal Translation and Commentary: (http://www.torahtimes.org/translation/mat2801.html)

All Rights Reserved, 2009 by Daniel Gregg.   No part of this article may be copied without including the above reference to the author's original: torahtimes.org.  It is preferable only to include what is in the boxes, however the live link in the second box may be omitted if necessary.

 

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79 posted on 11/13/2009 5:47:55 PM PST by Daniel Gregg (www.torahtimes.org)
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To: Daniel Gregg; Diego1618
Daniel Gregg said in Post # 79

“2. Robertson, pg. 646, "It is a point, for exegesis, not for grammar, to decide." The reason Roberston must say this is that it depends on the interpretation of the following gentive, and not on the lexical meaning of οψε, whose meaning is implicitly conceeded by the use of this argument NOT to be "after", and thus agrees with the main thesis of the editorial objection in Thayer's Lexicon. As for the further claim of the editor that the ablative is not in fact used in examples provided, the jury is still out until the source contexts of those examples can be rechecked.” [End Quote]

Here are the direct quotes from the Grammar book section that Mr. Gregg was referring to;

'A GRAMMAR OF THE GREEK NEW TESTAMENT IN THE LIGHT OF HISTORICAL RESEARCH'

Af T.' ROBERTSON, M.A., D.D., LL.D [Quotes Begin]

37 (ii/B.C). Hence in Mt. 28: 1 οψε σαββατων may be either late on the Sabbath or after the Sabbath. Either has good support. Moulton^ is uncertain, while Blass(2) prefers 'after.' It is a point for exegesis, not for grammar, to decide. If Matthew has in mind just before sunset, 'late on' would be his idea; if he means after sunset, then 'after' is correct.

[Quotes End] A GRAMMAR OF THE GREEK NEW TESTAMENT IN THE LIGHT OF HISTORICAL RESEARCH

HODDER & STOUGHTON NEW YORK GEORGE H. DORAN COMPANY COPYRIGHT, 1914 BY GEORGE H. DORAN COMPANY [Quotes End]

* Robert Young had a different take on the Greek word ‘οψε’ where he shows it as 'eve' for ' Matthew 28:1 in 'Young's Literal Translation'. Although it is not totally clear this may have been in reference to a moment of time within the day, alone by itself.

For an alternative description of the crucifixion – resurrection events please feel free to visit;

http://pmary65.wordpress.com/

Best Regards – Pmary65

81 posted on 11/14/2009 6:17:02 AM PST by Pmary65 (one of the Sabbaths)
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To: Daniel Gregg
Here is a breakdown on the Greek word ‘οψε’ from; ‘A GREEK-ENGLISH LEXICON of the NEW TESTAMENT being Grimms Wilkes Clavis Novi Testamenti’ TRANSLATED REVISED AND ENLARGED by JOSEPH HENRY THAYER, D.D. Fourth Edition EDINBURGH [Quotes Begin]

(Pg. 471) “οψε, adv. Of time, after a long time, long after, late;

a. late in the day i.e. at evening

b. with a gen. οψε σαββατων, the Sabbath having just passed, after the Sabbath, i.e. at the early dawn of the first day of the week Mt. xxviii. 1 cf. Mk. xvi. 1” [Quotes End]

- Best Regards

83 posted on 11/15/2009 6:57:38 AM PST by Pmary65 (http://pmary65.wordpress.com/)
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