Posted on 10/25/2009 5:47:50 AM PDT by NYer
Douay-Rheims John 20-23:
“20 And when he had said this, he shewed them his hands and his side. The disciples therefore were glad, when they saw the Lord.
19 “The doors were shut”... The same power which could bring Christ’s whole body, entire in all its dimensions, through the doors, can without the least question make the same body really present in the sacrament; though both the one and the other be above our comprehension.
21 He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. 22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained. “
That is one THEORY, the other THEORY is that they are simply followers of the heretic Nicolas.
Nevertheless, this has NOTHING to do with my post. Are you unaware that non-Catholic Christians ALSO have clergy and laity?
No, you demonstrated nothing. What you asked for were what requirements do Cathoics demand, as if there were none. I listed several. All you did was misinterpreted my statement into saying something that was not even said..
I suspect the woman’s Church doesn’t teach that either...just her way of avoiding discussing the Bible after she asked my wife about her beliefs.
Clearly there is missing context. The nature of your claim is a calumny that implies a known falsehood.
Then you do not know the creator of the universe and His Salvation. see Gen. 49:18; Exod. 14:13; 15:2; Deut. 32:15; 1 Sam. 2:1; 2 Sam. 22:3, 36, 47; 23:5; 1 Chr. 16:23, 35; 2 Chr. 6:41; 20:17; Job 13:16; Ps. 3:8; 9:14; 13:5; 14:7; 18:2, 35, 46; 21:1, 5; 24:5; 25:5; 27:1, 9; 35:3, 9; 37:39; 38:22; 40:10, 16; 50:23; 51:12, 14; 53:6; 62:1f, 6; 65:5; 67:2; 68:19; 69:29; 70:4; 71:15; 78:22; 79:9; 85:4, 7, 9; 88:1; 89:26; 91:16; 95:1; 96:2; 98:2f; 106:4; 116:13; 118:14f, 21; 119:41, 81, 123, 155, 166, 174; 132:16; 140:7; 144:10; 146:3; 149:4; Isa. 12:2f; 17:10; 25:9; 33:2, 6; 45:8, 17; 46:13; 49:6, 8; 51:5f, 8; 52:7, 10; 56:1; 59:11, 16; 60:18; 61:10; 62:1, 11; 63:5; Jer. 3:23; Lam. 3:26; Jon. 2:9; Mic. 7:7; Hab. 3:8, 13, 18; Zech. 9:9; Mk. 16:20; Lk. 1:69, 71, 77; 2:30; 3:6; 19:9; Jn. 4:22; Acts 4:12; 13:26, 47; 16:17; 28:28; Rom. 1:16; 10:1, 10; 11:11; 13:11; 2 Co. 1:6; 6:2; 7:10; Eph. 1:13; 6:17; Phil. 1:28; 2:12; 1 Thess. 5:8f; 2 Thess. 2:13; 1 Tim. 4:16; 2 Tim. 2:10; 3:15; Tit. 2:11; Heb. 1:14; 2:3, 10; 5:9; 6:9; 9:28; 11:7; 1 Pet. 1:5, 9; 2:2; 2 Pet. 3:15; Jude 1:3; Rev. 7:10; 12:10; 19:1 Really ?
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
However, your grammar betrays you:
...you attend mass every week, or demand that you believe the pope is infallible, or that you must believe that Mary is the Mother of God, or a thousand other things that have nothing to do with Jesus.
Regardless of what you might have meant, what you wrote referred to a list of things that have nothing to do with Jesus, some of which you named, others which you did not.
Of COURSE we are called to the ministry of reconciliation!
That does NOT supply direction to listen to confessions and forgive sins and assign penance.
“Clearly there is missing context. The nature of your claim is a calumny that implies a known falsehood.”
Sorry. I don’t know what you are trying to tell me.
Simple you made a claim that is missing context that promotes a lie about the Catholic world. That is a moral wrong. A calumny.
The Sacrament of Reconciliation is a gift from God, described by Christ and provided to us through His Church, by the power of the Holy Spirit.
That is one THEORY, the other THEORY is that they are simply followers of the heretic Nicolas.
Nevertheless, this has NOTHING to do with my post. Are you unaware that non-Catholic Christians ALSO have clergy and laity?
It is what the words mean. "Words mean things" The sects which have priests and laity are those which are withering. It's not a theory.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
To: chris_bdba
“Most Catholics I know have read the entire Douay-Rheims by the time they were 15yo usually starting about the time they go through Confirmation.”
Interesting. My wife recently started work as a nurse in a Catholic Hospital. One of the Catholic nurses told her ‘We aren’t allowed to read our Bibles’.
Yes, I know that is NOT the Catholic Church’s position - but yes, the belief IS out there, even many years after the Catholic Church agreed to allow laity to read scripture.
Bold added. I did not lie, nor did I claim the Catholic Church forbids reading Bibles.
My apologies to Aerosmith:
Where does Jesus Christ describe “The Sacrament of Reconciliation”?
I’ve already discussed what John 20 says, using St Augustine’s advice to let scripture interpret scripture, when possible.
No, you did not lie or claim that.
But, what you DID do was repeat a lie that the Catholic Church DOES forbid it.
Nothing wrong with the grammar. You are just arguing about minutia, whether 'other' means it includes everything previously stated, which it does not have to. The real point was that there are many many demands that the Catholic church places on its members, which you asked for examples but have yet to agree or disagree that those I listed are demands.
It is what the words mean.
Unless of course it is simply referring to the followers of a heretic named Nicolas.
The sects which have priests and laity are those which are withering.
The Catholic and Orthodox Churches are growing, some Protestant denominations are growing and some are withering -- ALL have clergy and laity.
Besides the verses I have already cited, you can look for proof right next to the verse where Jesus Christ says "I leave you no Church to guide you, instead I command sola Scriptura...ura...ura...ura..."
Right. Knowingly spreading a falsehood. Calumny. I suggest again that the context for the claimed quote is missing. You used it to claim that some are being taught or told something that even you know isn’t true. Bad.
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