Posted on 05/26/2009 9:27:20 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator
That's a weak and pitiful argument and does not constitute absolute verifiability.
That same book (Deuteronomy) also (as pointed out in the article) makes the claim that no nation (i.e. no religion) would EVER make a similar claim. Some 2,500 years after Ezra and 15,000 religions later, still no takers.
Further, G-d promised the Jews that they would be an eternal people. Despite widespread hatred, the loss of their homeland, the ease of conversion to other religions and multiple attempts to literally exterminate the Jews, they are still here (and, with some 400 nukes and the ability to deliver them over a wide range, they seem not to be going anywhere).
That's about as close to absolute verifiability as you'll ever get. Actually, the holes in the facts are far more in the nature of mistakes by secular archeologists. There are, for instance, serious questions about the exact order of Egyptian Pharoahs - and lots of dates for events outside of Egypt are dependent on who was Pharoah when.
Ping. Didn’t mean to forget you; it was totally an accident!
Alls well that ends well.
You know, God offered the ten commandments to all the peoples of the world. Each nation found fault with some part of them.
Finally he came to the Children of Israel and offered it to them. So they asked,
"How much does it cost?"
So God answered that it was free. They then said...
"We'll take two"
Lol!
"Furthermore, it is interesting to note that the other major religions of the world both accept the Jewish revelation at Sinai,...Why didn't they just deny the revelation ever happened?"
Each year now, more of them are denying it.
You got that right. And the ironic thing is, the more liberal, irreligious, Torah-denying elements of these religions see themselves as being somehow more "philo-Semitic" than the orthodox members of those religions (not that the orthodox were any great shakes).
Thanks for the article. It's certainly true that God spoke the ten commandments from Mount Sinai.
God spoke to you from the midst of the fire, you were hearing the sound of words, but you were not seeing a form, only a sound. He told you of His covenant, instructing you to keep the Ten Commandments, and He inscribed them on two stone tablets.' (Deut.4:9-13)
But those were the ONLY words he uttered to all of Israel. He did not speak directly to the people after this, but spoke through prophets.
Exd 20:18 KJV - And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw [it], they removed, and stood afar off.
Exd 20:19 KJV - And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.
Please note that I'm not diminishing those instructions given through the prophets. I'm merely pointing out that the giving of Godly revelation through prophets was norm.
All of the law except the ten commandments were given through prophets such as Moses, Ezekiel, Jesus and Paul.
I will also be observing the Shavu'ot, or Pentecost, this weekend and hope that you have a blessed observance.
Unfortunately, you only believe this because it is written in the Protestant bible, to which you take an a priori position of belief. The article was aimed at people who do not have this assumption and shows from simple logic that G-d spoke at Sinai.
That chr*stianity is unprovided for by the Torah means nothing to you, because you inherited a bible with a "new testament" tacked on to the end, which automatically makes it "the word of G-d." If the Apocrypha (which were originally in the KJV) had never been removed you would believe them as well.
Your logic is identical to that of the mormons. And I know . . . you claim mine is identical to that of the Catholics because you assume to accept any Tradition is to accept all tradition.
I'm sorry for a hostile response to a basically friendly post, but your illogical assumptions are absolutely maddening.
You are aware, aren't you, that when J*sus was preaching the "new testament" was not in the Bible and that he couldn't quote Ephesians to prove what he was teaching?
Show me from the hebrew scriptures where God spoke any of the law except the ten commandments directly to all the people. I showed you specifically where it said the people only wanted to hear what God said THROUGH Moses after God spoke the ten commandments.
Exd 20:18 KJV - And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw [it], they removed, and stood afar off.
Exodus 20:19 KJV - And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.
Exodus 20:20 KJV - And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not.
Exodus 20:21 KJV - And the people stood afar off, and Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where God [was].
Exodus 20:22 KJV - And the LORD said unto Moses, Thus thou shalt say unto the children of Israel, Ye have seen that I have talked with you from heaven.
And God was still speaking through Moses some 40 years later:
Deu 30:8 KJV - And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day.
Deu 30:9 KJV - And the LORD thy God will make thee plenteous in every work of thine hand, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy land, for good: for the LORD will again rejoice over thee for good, as he rejoiced over thy fathers:
Deu 30:10 KJV - If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, [and] if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
Deu 30:11 KJV - For this commandment which I command thee this day, it [is] not hidden from thee, neither [is] it far off.
Please note again that I'm not invalidating what happened. I'm not saying that God didnt' speak to Moses and that Moses relayed the message faithfully. I'm just saying that the Hebrew scriptures SAY that God only spoke the ten commandments and that he spoke through prophets thereafter.
Your logic is identical to that of the mormons. And I know . . . you claim mine is identical to that of the Catholics because you assume to accept any Tradition is to accept all tradition.
I don't reject all tradition. I reject tradition that doesn't agree with scripture.
You are aware, aren't you, that when J*sus was preaching the "new testament" was not in the Bible and that he couldn't quote Ephesians to prove what he was teaching?
Well aware. Nearly all new testament figures quoted the "old" testament to support their positions. Those whom they spoke to also verified their claims through the hebrew scriptures.
Chag sameach to all!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gkwVf4cHqM
Chag Shavu`ot sameach!
Thanks for the ping.
GREAT POINTS.
THX THX.
Belated Shavu`ot ping.
http://www.torah.org/advanced/mikra/5757/sh/dt.57.2.05.html
... the original plan was for the people to hear more than just these ‘Aseret haDibrot; whether they should have heard the entire Torah or just the rest of Sefer haB’rit (through 23:19) is unclear. What is implicit in these verses is that it was the people’s fear that interrupted the revelation and “changed the rules” such that Mosheh would receive the rest of the revelation alone and transmit it to the people.
This would also explain an interesting switch in terminology in the Torah relating to the Tablets. Whereas they are called Luchot haB’rit - “the Tablets of the Covenant” in one section of Sefer D’varim (9:9-15), they have a different name in reference to their placement in the Mishkan:
You shall put into the ark the Edut (testimony) that I shall give you. (25:16).
These tablets are called Edut because they testify to the Revelation. In other words, these ‘Aseret haDibrot were not committed to graphic representation on the tablets because of their inherent importance, but rather as a testimony to the Revelation which every member of the B’nei Yisra’el had experienced...
‘Moses came down from the mountain with the news that, “I’ve gotten Him down to ten. Unfortunately, adultery is still one of them.”’
Had I told that before?
Thanks always for the ping, ZC.
‘Moses came down from the mountain with the news that, “I’ve gotten Him down to ten. Unfortunately, adultery is still one of them.”’
Always a catch.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.