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To: Fichori
Whenever anyone says "this is a fact", it can only ever mean "based on what I have seen and heard, my opinion is that it is true". Bible-thumper, atheist, scientist, dunce, all are chained equally to the wall of Plato's cave, and pointing this out confers no advantage to anyone's position.

"Faith" to me means "acceptance in the abscence of any evidence, and even in spite of evidence to the contrary". In that sense, my considerations are not at all rooted in faith.

91 posted on 12/14/2008 11:50:54 PM PST by Physicist
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To: Physicist
“Whenever anyone says "this is a fact", it can only ever mean "based on what I have seen and heard, my opinion is that it is true".” [excerpt]
This is a fact: objects, unless acted upon by another force, are pulled toward the earth.

Oh, yeah, anyone can test my claim.

“"Faith" to me means "acceptance in the abscence of any evidence, and even in spite of evidence to the contrary".” [excerpt]
Exactly.

“In that sense, my considerations are not at all rooted in faith.” [excerpt]
I see.

So when you say “I consider the descent of species by gradual modfication from a common ancestor--the fact of evolution, if you will--to be as firmly demonstrated as almost any fact of science.” does your rule of: “Whenever anyone says "this is a fact", it can only ever mean "based on what I have seen and heard, my opinion is that it is true".” kick in?

Wouldn't that make your not-quite-faith 'consideration' nothing more than opinion?

Isn't that you saying, this is a fact, which can only mean based on what I have seen and heard, my opinion is that it is true?


92 posted on 12/15/2008 12:10:59 AM PST by Fichori (I believe in a Woman's right to choose, even if she hasn't been born yet.)
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To: Physicist; Fichori
"Faith" to me means "acceptance in the abscence of any evidence, and even in spite of evidence to the contrary". In that sense, my considerations are not at all rooted in faith.

Except that that is not the only definition of faith.

faith 1 a: allegiance to duty or a person : loyalty b (1): fidelity to one's promises (2): sincerity of intentions

2 a (1): belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2): belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1): firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2): complete trust

3: something that is believed especially with strong conviction ; especially : a system of religious beliefs

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/faith

Even faith in the Bible isn't required to be blind belief in something for which there is no evidence. Jesus demonstrated over and over who He was by His actions and words. God doesn't expect us to believe something for no reason.

Acts 1:1-3 In my former book, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen. After his suffering, he showed himself to these men and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God.

126 posted on 12/15/2008 5:14:11 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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