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To: Donald Rumsfeld Fan
The fact that you're asking this question with the aid of a computer over the internet is the proof. Intelligent Design is inferential through observation and logic.

I see. So observation and logic are good for creation; what about the observations of micro and macro evolution? Logic applied to the thought that "these two animals look similar, but have different ways of dealing with their geographically disparate environment, thus the differences in their looks and behavior arose from their environment". Does that not also work?

The two concepts are mutually exclusive by definition

They are? How? Intelligent Design fundamentally attacks how it started. Evolution addresses how it's continued. So how are they mutually exclusive, other than the fact they address fundamentally different questions?

Unless of course you posit that an intelligent agent e.g. God invented evolution.

And that therefore unifies the two, meaning they are not exclusive, correct?

75 posted on 06/14/2008 10:33:59 AM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the sting of truth is the defense of the indefensible)
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To: PugetSoundSoldier
..... what about the observations of micro and macro evolution? Logic applied to the thought that "these two animals look similar, but have different ways of dealing with their geographically disparate environment, thus the differences in their looks and behavior arose from their environment". Does that not also work?

Micro evolution is observable. But not macro evolution. Observation and inference based on logic is one way we understand the world. Especially that part of the world that is difficult to understand experimentally.

The two concepts are mutually exclusive by definition.

They are? How? Intelligent Design fundamentally attacks how it started. Evolution addresses how it's continued. So how are they mutually exclusive, other than the fact they address fundamentally different questions? ,/i>

Intelligent Design posits that an intelligent agent was behind the "creation event". This agent was the designer of the universe. He had the "design specs" and the "blue prints" so to speak.

Evolution (atheist version) requires information ex nihilo (out of nothing). The Neo-Darwinist's mechanism not withstanding.

Now if you posit the Deist's theory that god created evolution then you must still accept that information preceded life.

This creates some fundamental problems for evolutionists.

e.g. If it's a given that god's information thru his will created the universe (i.e. time and matter and space) then what about subsets of the universe. e.g. humans?

Or did god place the necessary information in matter that eventually found its way into our DNA?

Or is god outside of time creating and supervising his design project as we speak? The deists won't like that.

Unless of course you posit that an intelligent agent e.g. God invented evolution. And that therefore unifies the two, meaning they are not exclusive, correct?

Correct. But that was not the prevailing opinion of evolutionists.

I said in an earlier post trying to understand evolution is like trying to nail jello to a wall.

They seem to be backing away from the ex nihilo explanation. Dawkins recently admitted such to Ben Stein in his new movie "Expelled".

Life was invented by aliens from outer space according to Dawkin's musings.

More jello on the wall.

88 posted on 06/14/2008 12:03:37 PM PDT by Donald Rumsfeld Fan ("Sincerity is everything. If you can fake that, youÂ’ve got it made." Groucho Marx)
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