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To: PugetSoundSoldier
if behavior like that exists in animals, then why not in people?

Well obviously it exists in people and animals. The question is whether it is consistent with the picture painted by Darwinians of people and animals.

59 posted on 06/14/2008 8:33:32 AM PDT by Ethan Clive Osgoode (<<== Click here to learn about Darwinism!)
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To: Ethan Clive Osgoode
Well obviously it exists in people and animals.

Good, a common point of belief! :)

The question is whether it is consistent with the picture painted by Darwinians of people and animals.

I posit that it is consistent - and in fact representative - of the theory of evolution! In certain species, group-action has taken root, to better that species. In others (like in Bengal tigers, or eagles, or baleen whales) individual tactics still dominate because that is best suited to their normal environment.

In the species I posted, it is behavior that OPTIMIZES their survival in their environment. For the Harris hawk, they normally feed on small rodents and lizards (we had very few around our place in Chile - I fed them scraps of chicken when there weren't enough lizards, just to keep them around!). In the areas they normally hunt, there is a lot of thick underbrush and the earth is filled with small holes. Escape of prey is a LOT easier than with prairie dogs in the Midwest, or salmon in the rivers of the Northwest.

For lions, their predominant prey is as big - or bigger - than themselves. It takes several to bring down a water buffalo, or zebra, or small elephant. Lions are fiercesome, powerful, and have incredible stamina - but are slow. But a pride is deadly to larger, slower animals on the open plain.

Conversely, the tiger is a solitary beast in the jungle where hunting in packs does not work, because you cannot see your prey all the time. And the tiger is larger (two or three times) than the female lion, because it must take its prey on its own. But in a jungle - where you cannot see more than 10 feet, and cannot hear past 30 (jungles are pretty noisy places), pack-hunting does not work.

Baleen whales are individual feeders. Why? Their "prey" doesn't flee at all. Krill are essentially one step above plants, in terms of intelligence...:) They float along in huge blooms. And the whales take passes through them. Easy to do, no extra energy expended.

The Orca's prey, though, tends to be herring and salmon, both of which are as fast - and MUCH more maneuverable than the Orca. Hunting in pods is really the only way to develop a steady diet (other than the occasional, daydreaming seal).

I would submit that such behavior is, by its own existence, evidence of an evolutionary path. That the fact each genus - great cats, whales, predatory birds - has species with fundamentally different feeding behaviors (the most base behavior of all - how to eat) - shows that the behavior arose because of their environmental and food-source differences, not in spite of it.

Given that, it would render the arguments about "evolution says it's always dog-eat-dog" moot; the evidence clearly indicates otherwise.

Darwinians

And by the way, I know you like to use the pejoratives "Darwinians" and "Darwinists", but if anything it is the theory of evolution, so if you have to use a name, call supporters of evolution - evolutionists (small e). It is not a god, nor a religion, nor a single man but a scientific theory profered, refined, and researched for 150 years.

Unless you refer to believers in gravity as Newtonites? Or believers in the helio-centric model of the solar system Copernicans?

65 posted on 06/14/2008 9:28:05 AM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the sting of truth is the defense of the indefensible)
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