Ancient writings support LDS doctrine and teachings (LDS Caucus)

Ancient writings unearthed in the last century and a half, primarily in Egypt, are lending support to doctrines and teachings of Joseph Smith, founder of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, a Brigham Young University professor of antiquities said Sunday.

C. Wilford Griggs, who has written extensively on Egypt and is working on excavating Christian burial grounds in Egypt, said scholars are now admitting that "Joseph Smith got into the antiquities" before experts in the field began their discoveries, but they won't accept his explanation.

Smith, an uneducated farm boy, claimed he translated the Book of Mormon from ancient gold plates using instruments given him by an angel, but scholars are refusing to believe that, Griggs said during a fireside, "Joseph Smith and the Egyptian Connection," at the Pleasant Grove Manila Stake Center. Some of the ancient writings have been found in the past few years.

Many scholars are now admitting that the book accepted as scripture by church members is an ancient book, but as one scholar of antiquities told Griggs, he had no problem with the gold plates and Smith's story would be acceptable "if you'd get rid of that angel."

Anciently, the fountain of Christian knowledge was Egypt and the Mediterranean region and for about 1,000 years 90 percent of the people were in the faith "until they were converted to Islam by the sword," he said.

"We are being flooded with (ancient) writings," Griggs said, describing many as coming from the biblical New Testament period. Many of the writings, now totaling about 8,000, are on papyri, but others are on metal plates. None are exactly alike, which lends historical credence to the finds.

The apostles scattered throughout the known world and established pockets of Christianity after the time of Jesus Christ, including Egypt, he said. Some of the best early Christian records were found in Egypt, where they survived because of the climate.

The traditional concept that the Bible is complete came about 400 A.D., he said. Before then Christians knew that many other writings existed.

Many of the Christian teachings found in Egyptian digs that are shared in common with Smith's teachings have to do with the temple "and how the heavens can be open to us," Griggs said.

Among those findings is the teaching of baptism by proxy for folks who have died without learning of Christ and his gospel, which centers on the resurrection.

Anciently, baptism was known as a "sealing" to go to heaven, he said. The word "sealing" is used today in LDS temples in similar fashion.

Most of the writings which have now been found were secret anciently and held back from the people until they proved their worthiness.

Some speak of the potential of their divinity, also a common theme Smith taught, which the first LDS prophet said was given to him by revelation.

"Several of the gospels ... show that revelation was alive and well in the ancient world. Revelation was a keystone," Griggs said.

Yet centuries later, revelation and temples were denounced by religious leaders, including Augustine, as unnecessary.

>>>Smith was proven to be a complete fraud by the messy situation with the Book of Abraham.

Do you realize that your link posits several theories. Some of which actually support the idea Smith received it by revelation?

You'll have to find another source that is all anti to support your claim that Jospeh Smith was a complete fraud.

As for comparing archeological texts which seems to be the topic of the thread (and which I agree should not be caucus) Joseph Smith did a pretty good job of getting the ancient practices and beliefs correctly, which supports his claim that he actually did restore the primitive Christian Church.

Here is just one example from the Book of Abraham comparing to other texts...

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The "Angel(s) of the Presence"

We have seen in this chapter that Yahweh was originally thought of as both God and angel, but what of this strange title, "Angel of the Presence"? Barker intimates that this was once one of Yahweh's titles as well, which was later given to the archangels.313 Segal explains that whoever was designated as the chief angel in the Israelite literature was also given the title "Angel of the Presence," and was regarded as superior to the others. 314

Accordingly, Luke and the apocryphal book of Tobit refer to angels who stand in the presence of God. "And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God . . . ." (Luke 1:19, KJV) "I am Raphael, one of the seven angels who stand in attendance on the Lord and enter his glorious presence." (Tobit 12:15, NEB) However, Isaiah is the only Biblical writer to use the phrase "angel of his presence." Speaking of the goodness of Yahweh toward the house of Israel, the Hebrew text of Isaiah 63:8-9 (followed by the KJV) reads: "For he [Yahweh] said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he was their Saviour. In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them . . . ." It is clear from the text that Yahweh saved his people by the "angel of his presence," but it is not at all evident that Yahweh was equated with this angel, although this is most certainly the case. The ancient translators of the Greek Old Testament (Septuagint or LXX, translated in the second and third centuries B.C.) knew of this tradition, and therefore made no reference to the "angel of his presence," but translated the verse in question as, "It was no envoy, no angel, but he himself that delivered them." (Isaiah 63:9, NEB) Clearly, Yahweh was the "angel of his presence."

Jesus as Yahweh and the "Angel of the Presence" The belief in Yahweh as Israel's second God, the chief angel, was the basis of early Christian Christology. But even more to the point is Jean Daniélou's claim that in certain early Jewish Christian traditions both Jesus and the Holy Spirit were believed to be the two "Angels of the Presence transcending all others."315

Conclusion

We have established that Abraham's identification of Yahweh with "the angel of his presence" was consistent with the earliest Israelite traditions, and with the earliest Christian traditions. But if we assume, as the critics of the Book of Abraham do, that Joseph Smith created this remarkable document by applying his fertile imagination to the sources he had at hand, how did he come up with this strange designation for Yahweh? The only Biblical source for the phrase would have been Isaiah 63:9, but we have seen that this verse gives no hint that Yahweh was equated with "the angel of his presence." This conclusion can only be drawn when the Greek text is compared with the Hebrew. However, it seems unlikely that Joseph Smith had access to a translation of the Septuagint, so again we are at a loss to find a source for the Prophet's teaching. Consider also that we have not been able to find even a single case where Joseph Smith used this title to refer to Yahweh, apart from this solitary passage in the Book of Abraham, or even to the Septuagint. Therefore, we are forced to conclude that Joseph Smith was inconceivably lucky in his choice of words, or the Patriarch Abraham actually chose these words to describe his God.

Source- "Restoring the Ancient Church: Joseph Smith and Early Christianity"

Where are the gold plates that the farm boy translated? Surely we can see them and verify their origin and confirm the accuracy of the translation. Lets see ‘em - they can prove the validity of Mormonism.

They are gone (if they ever existed in the first place). However, there are two or three possible examples of Smith's translational abilities. First is the Book of Abraham - said to be translated from a papyrus scroll from Egypt. Temporally lost and found again in 1967, it was examined by Egyptologist (both mormon and non-mormon) and found to be a common prayer for the dead called a "book of breathing". Needless to say it had absolutely nothing to do with what was 'translated'

Second are the Kinderhook Plates, metal plate with etchings found shortly before Smith's death. Smith said they contained the history of a descendent of the phaioros and was going to begin translation of what would almost be a sequel to the bom. Needless to say Smith's death prohibited publication. Later, people came forward and said the plates were a hoax and testing of the metal of the remaining plate showed it was of 1800's origion.

The third was a Psalter in the Greek language that was brought to smith. Smith said it was written in Egyptian. The owner of the psalter knew otherwise and when confronted, smith departed 'quickly'.

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