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To: siunevada
Does that mean that if Catholics "sacrifice" the eating of meat on Fridays, desserts during Lent, etc. that they have a better relationship with Jesus Christ?

Or do people get used to abstaining this or that during proscribed times decided upon by the Catholic hierarchy and do it as a rule without ever spending time daily in prayer and actually asking God's for a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, as well as forgiveness for one's sins; daily Bible Study and meditation on the message that they have just read?

I'm not trying to be contentious here, just trying to understand the Catholic faith.

17 posted on 02/28/2006 10:57:36 AM PST by zerosix (Native Sunflower and avid ironer)
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To: zerosix
Or do people get used to abstaining this or that during proscribed times decided upon by the Catholic hierarchy and do it as a rule without ever spending time daily in prayer and actually asking God's for a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, as well as forgiveness for one's sins; daily Bible Study and meditation on the message that they have just read?

I think in every religion there are people who lose themselves in external observances and conforming themselves to various "rules" and then miss the essential inner core of things.

Any Catholic who doesn't take time to pray every day, though -- not just during Lent but all year -- just plain isn't doing it right. Any Catholic catechism or spiritual director worth his salt will make that abundantly clear.

20 posted on 02/28/2006 11:02:22 AM PST by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: zerosix
I would think that if we do it as a rule without ever spending time daily in prayer and actually asking God's for a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, it would be pretty darned pointless, wouldn't it?

I believe the intention of all this sort of thing is to put aside some of the things "of the world" to help us focus on what's most important.

Tomorrow we'll fast and abstain from meat. If we spend all day moaning and groaning to ourselves, then we've really missed the point. If all the little hunger pangs and changes in our daily routine turns our hearts and minds more intently toward Jesus, it is a gain for us. If we only do it because "we gotta", we miss an opportunity. Plus, we do it together.

Check out the Orthodox sometime. They do some real heavy duty fast and abstinence during Lent. We Latins are pretty lightweight in discipline compared to them.

24 posted on 02/28/2006 11:17:53 AM PST by siunevada (If we learn nothing from history, what's the point of having one? - Peggy Hill)
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To: zerosix

I just skimmed through this earlier thread. It seemed pretty good.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1586939/posts


30 posted on 02/28/2006 11:29:37 AM PST by siunevada (If we learn nothing from history, what's the point of having one? - Peggy Hill)
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To: zerosix

Our clergy do all our mediation and contemplation.
We don't have to pray.
We don't have to think.
We just pay enough money and "shazam" we get into heaven.
Its kind of like being saved.
It's such a sweet deal.


32 posted on 02/28/2006 11:40:54 AM PST by Notwithstanding (I love my German shepherd - Benedict XVI reigns!)
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To: zerosix
Does that mean that if Catholics "sacrifice" the eating of meat on Fridays, desserts during Lent, etc. that they have a better relationship with Jesus Christ?

Fasting has two purposes. (1) To reduce our concupiscible appetite for sensible delights (food, drink, and sex being the primary ones) so that the mind can focus on heavenly things without the distraction of coming earthly delights. (2) To reduce our necessities at times and allow us to then give from our surplus to the poor. The money you save from not having lunch, or forgoing a steak at dinner should go to your local soup kithen or food pantry for the poor. The time saved from not preparing elaborate meals or going out to eat should also be given over to the service of others who need our help.

So fasting should mean a person gains a better relationship with Christ, and becomes more Christlike to others through a growth in charity. Whether that actually occurs depends upon the dedication of the person, and if they approach their faith and the fast in a legalistic manner, or in a spiritualistic manner.

46 posted on 02/28/2006 12:23:38 PM PST by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: zerosix
Does that mean that if Catholics "sacrifice" the eating of meat on Fridays, desserts during Lent, etc. that they have a better relationship with Jesus Christ? Or do people get used to abstaining this or that during proscribed times decided upon by the Catholic hierarchy and do it as a rule without ever spending time daily in prayer and actually asking God's for a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, as well as forgiveness for one's sins; daily Bible Study and meditation on the message that they have just read?

I'm not trying to be contentious here,

Baloney.
65 posted on 02/28/2006 3:02:02 PM PST by Conservative til I die
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To: zerosix
Lent is a time of prayer, fasting and giving alms. It includes all you suggest but much more. It includes Communion/Eucharist. And there is nothing that better establishes a personal relationship with Jesus.

His Body and Blood builds upon and transforms our nature making us partakers of His Divine Nature

2 Peter...By whom he hath given us most great and precious promises: that by these you may be made partakers of the divine nature: flying the corruption of that concupiscence which is in the world

*Your good nature can be perfected by the Grace of Jesus in the Sacramental System in the Church Jesus established as His Ark of Salvation.

Have a Blessed Lent, brother

69 posted on 02/28/2006 3:29:16 PM PST by bornacatholic
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To: zerosix
Does that mean that if Catholics "sacrifice" the eating of meat on Fridays, desserts during Lent, etc. that they have a better relationship with Jesus Christ?

There are alot of things in Catholic tradition (long or short term) that could be misunderstood when taken out of context. Lent for example is much more than not eating meat on Fridays and Ash Wednesday (which apparently happens to be the minimal ammount of fasting in cannon law). It also requires increased prayer, penance, almsgiving, works of mercy thoughout the whole 40 days. Personally I look forward to lent for all these things as a whole, and yes I have a better relationship with Jesus Christ for it.

I suppose the discussion about the meatless Fridays and Ash Wednesday gets a disproportionate share of the discussion on Lent because in cafeterias around the world Catholics are refraning from eating flesh-meat, and their co-workers/students instantly do a double-take and spark up a conversation.

Jesus fasted before his death...And Fasting is especially encouraged during Lent..Fridays and Ash Wednesday are the minimum, but obviously we can fast daily if we desire - just like Muslims do during Ramadan

89 posted on 02/28/2006 10:52:30 PM PST by right-wingin_It
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To: zerosix

'…I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.' Mattew 26:29


90 posted on 02/28/2006 11:06:04 PM PST by right-wingin_It
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To: zerosix

This may help you to understand:

http://www.ewtn.com/faith/lent/history.htm


92 posted on 03/01/2006 4:55:16 AM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: zerosix

This guy has a few comments on Catholic Lenten practices and Scripture:

Lent should be a time for deeper meditation on the word of God, which will lead to conversion and to concrete acts of charity, said Pope Benedict XVI.

"Lent stimulates us to allow our lives to be penetrated by the word of God and in that way to know the fundamental truth about who we are, where we come from, where we are going and what is the path we must follow in our lives," the pope said March 1, Ash Wednesday and the beginning of Lent in the Latin-rite Catholic Church.

Speaking at his weekly general audience, held under a light rain in St. Peter's Square, the pope urged Catholics to allow themselves to be "nourished with the abundance of the word of God" during Lent.

In his main audience talk, sprinkled with explanations not contained in his prepared text, the pope looked at the two phrases used when distributing ashes: "Remember that you are dust and to dust you will return" and "Turn away from sin and be faithful to the Gospel."

The first, he said, is a reminder that people have fallen and have limits, and it "is meant to urge us to place all our hope in God alone."

Lent is a time of "fasting, penance and vigilance over ourselves, knowing that the struggle against sin never ends because temptation is an everyday reality, and fragility and disillusionment are experienced by everyone," the pope said.

The admonition to "convert and believe in the Gospel," he said, "places firm and faithful adhesion to the Gospel at the foundation of personal and communal renewal."

"The Christian life is a life of faith founded and nourished on the word of God," he said. "In the trials of life and before every temptation, the secret of victory consists in listening to the word of truth and decisively refusing falsehood and evil.

"This is the real program of the Lenten period: to listen to the word of truth, to live, speak and act in truth and to refuse falsehood, which poisons humanity and is at the root of all evil," the pope said.

One who follows the truth, meditates on the Gospel and draws closer and closer to God, he said, also "sees others with new eyes. He discovers his brothers and sisters and their needs."

"Because the truth of God is love, conversion to God is conversion to love," Pope Benedict said.

The "climate of Lent," he said, "is precisely the climate of love for our brothers and sisters" because it is a time for learning to see others with Christ's eyes.

Pope Benedict said because conversion includes a growing realization of the obligation to demonstrate love for one's neighbors charity and almsgiving are central to the Lenten practice.


97 posted on 03/01/2006 9:51:58 AM PST by siunevada (If we learn nothing from history, what's the point of having one? - Peggy Hill)
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