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Presidential job approval and other key measures
 Gallup Polls Gallup Poll of Baghdad
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Tuesday, September 30, 2003
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Posted on 09/30/2003 3:43:00 PM PDT by evilsmoker
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Anyone, any candidate, who has to use the word " princpled ", or his ardent followers do, doesn't deserve the appelation.
You know what ? I'd much prefer to be in THAT exaulted company, than in the group calling us all RINO . ;^)
You say even the most liberal Pubbies are more conservative than any 'Rat...well, that's debateable. I'd put not only Zell Miller's, but also Bruce Breaux's record up against Chafee's, Spector's, Snowe's, Collins', etc. They can't be the only two, but I'm still willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.
Furthermore, even if liberal Pubbies are more to the right than 'Rats, it's not by much. Anyone who says that they're for tax relief, but but spouts anti-gun lies, is for "gay" marriage, is unwilling to overturn ridiculous laws allowing illegal scumbag aliens to get drivers' licenses, or use their Matriculas as an official ID, and so on, is still way too far to the left for any real conservative to vote for. A conservative who does vote for such a candidate is selling out his or her principles for the sake of party, and is one sad individual.
I agree with you about all the "neo" and "paleo" conservative crap we've been hearing over the last few years. Conservatism is what it is...period. A lot of people who call themselves conservatives are not in the slightest.
Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!
Unfortunately I agree with that statement. Looks like it is splitting more and more between Conservative Republicans who support the Administration and Republican candidates including Arnold and the other groups who claim to be Republican "principled" conservatives but then go on to say they will stay home if their "principled" candidate doesn't get the nod. Those folks are NOT Republicans IMHO -- we were in the minority for too many years to stay home and not vote!
Schwarzenegger had support from 40 percent of likely voters in Tuesday's poll, Bustamante had 32 percent and Republican state Sen. Tom McClintock had 15 percent.
Uh, Oh
This is the first time you've heard of principled conservatives? Where were you when Bush was campaigning as a "compassionate" conservative, or even worse in '96, when Jack Kemp was calling himself a "bleeding heart conservative"? This is not a new debate. The GOP has been splitting ever since half of the party decided it was easier to compromise it's principles, and the other half decided to stay true to what the GOP (once) stood for. Conservatism is principled, it is compassionate, in and of itself. Anyone who sides with party over principle is not a conservative.
Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!
If the ONLY raison d'etre, of FR, is going to be to elect the purist of the pure, then many of us are on the wrong site. If, OTOH, one of FR's unbending goals is to remeove Dems from office and keep them out, them there are others, who don't belong here. The ALL OR NOTHINGers, fail to see that there are places, in the USA, where baby steps are required first and that this nation is NOT all that Conservative.
What seperates the GOPers, from the Dems, more than anything else, is that a Dem WILL vote for anyone with a D after their name, but the GOPers won't. What this has done and continue to do, is to keep Dems in power. We need a fillibuster proof Senate and until that time,any GOPer should be elected. We need a TRUE majority in BOTH Houses AND the presidency. We need as many GOP governors, mayors, etc.,as can be elected ! If they all aren't 100% " PURE ", so what ? That time shall NEVER even be approachable, unless the GOP is string enough to have convinced the general populace that it really IS they better party, with the better positions.
WHEN IT'S A CHOICE OF ALL OR NOTHING, THE ALL OR NOTHING CROWD WILL ALWAYS GET N-O-T-H-I-N-G !
People who have no desire to change their world, no will to work within the parameters of a real political landscape, no intent to address their grievences or pursue their principles in serious ways need to be kicked to the curb wit' a quickness.
A principled vote for an unelectable Tom McClintock, who could never deliver a pro-life, anti-gay and immigration satisfaction from the Sacramento Governor office even if elected - is not to be respected or admired or understood in any way. It's nothing but a selfish fashion statement.
"Conservative" still has a distinct political and ideological meaning in the world outside Free Republic, but it has been mangled beyond recognition within the forum. When Michael Medved, Dennis Prager, Hugh Hewitt, Dana Rohrbacher, Duke Cunningham, Chris Cox, Sean Hannity, Bill Thomas, Bill Simon and Duncan Hunter are no longer considered "real conservatives" by mutants here ... I don't want to be a "real conservative".
The California GOP is now Arnold's party. The sweet little power and financial motherlode the unappeasables enjoyed and maintained through their perennial LOSING is hitherto TERMINATED.
Californians got Gray Davis, Barbara Boxer, Dianne Feinstein, Bill Lockyear and Socialist Democrat rule because the California GOP was run by hacks who deemed any Republican capable of statewide election automatically unfit and not Conservative enough to support.
That's the angst here. The McClintock gang are losing their franchise, and all the power and money that goes with it.
You find it offensive that a conservative would stand by his principles? Or that he was right all along about being able to win the election?
There's still time to break out of the brainwashing, Bunny! We don't have to let the RINOs push us around!
Come over to the Light, Bunny, while there's still time!
Since that is the case, you have no right to call any Republican a RINO -- you are obviously a "principled" conservative who puts principle over winning -- so quit call those of us who are lifelong Republicans RINO's -- you have no right since you obviously are not a Republican!
I guess I have become overly sensitive to volume and the nature of the dialog from the out-of-staters. When I see things like "liberal Pubbie administration," I don't feel someone is trying to engage in a serious debate. The use of pejoratives such as "Pubbie" to describe the person I am voting for feels like a pot shot. However, since you have explicitly said that you are not taking pot shots, I will take a second look at your question.
If you don't mind, I will rephrase your question
What is the difference between a Cruz and Arnold administration?
Cruz is an ultra-liberal. He is even more deeply entrenched in the socialist ideology than Davis is. Going from Davis to Cruz will only make things much worse for us here in California and for you in Florida.
I prefer my ideologues to be on the conservative side of the fence. Tom is a fine conservative ideologue. He would make a good governor but he really does not stand a chance of winning.
Arnold is not as much of a conservative ideologue as Tom is, but Arnold is on the right side of the fence. He does hold many, but not all, of the conservative values I hold.
The bottom line is that I don't want to see Cruz win. No way. If Arnold is the alternative, then so be it.
As I stated in the post you originally responded to, either Arnold or Tom needs to drop out. One of them needs to drop out to shot down that Cruz missile that is heading for Sacramento. The only question is, "which one should drop out?" I think the one that is polling the worse should be the one.
If polls for Arnold and Tim where switched, I truely believe that Arnold would act like the man of character that he is and drop out.
CA NexGen BIGpoll: Davis-Out; Arnold-In
Tuesday September 30, 3:40 pm ET- Over 7000 Speak Out in CA's Largest Scientific Poll -
WASHINGTON, Sept. 30 /PRNewswire/ -- With one week until election day in America's largest state, the California NexGen BIGpoll of 7,097 registered Golden State voters finds that just over 61% will vote to remove Governor Gray Davis from office in the Recall Election scheduled for October 7, 2003. And according to results, Arnold Schwarzenegger will top the field by almost a sizable double-digit margin over his nearest rival, Lt. Governor Cruz Bustamante in the Replacement Election to fill the office of Governor.Paul F. Welday, President of Renaissance Strategies, a leading business and political communications firm, said, "Not only is Arnold Schwarzenegger bringing home the Republican vote, but he has made a sizable dent in Cruz Bustamante's support among Democrats. And only 4.8% separates Arnold from Bustamante among Hispanic voters with 32% going Schwarzenegger's way. Only one in five Republicans now support Tom McClintock and it looks like his campaign is over."
The poll was conducted by BIGresearch for Renaissance Strategies between September 23-27 sampled 7,097 registered voters from throughout California via e-mail using sampling techniques pioneered for business and industry. The poll's margin of error is +1%/-1%.
In the election as to whether to recall Governor Gray Davis, California voters are clearly looking for change with 61.4% saying he should be recalled. 38.6% of California voters believe he should stay in office. Recall fever is particularly high in Southern California with 70.5% of San Diego area voters and 69.2% of Los Angeles voters intending to vote Governor Davis out of office. And younger voters between the ages of 18-34 want Davis out by 68.2% to 31.8% margin.
In the Replacement Election to succeed Davis, actor Arnold Schwarzenegger has pulled ahead to a dramatic lead over the large field of candidates with 39.7% of voters indicating support for his candidacy. Lt. Governor Cruz Bustamante follows with 23.6%, State Senator Tom McClintock has 12.6%, Green Party candidate Peter Camejo pulls 3.6%, Independent Arianna Huffington has 2.8% and all other candidates record 4.2%. 13.4% of California voters remain undecided with less than one week to go.
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