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White without Apology
TooGoodReports ^ | 08/13/03 | Bernard Chapin

Posted on 08/13/2003 6:57:47 AM PDT by bedolido

While doing my weekly shopping at the Jewel-Osco, I overheard a very unusual conversation. It was between two young baggers who were talking about an article one of them had read regarding President Lincoln. Both men happened to be black. One of them informed the other that President Lincoln cared nothing about blacks and was actually a racist. I was stunned. I wanted to interject a million things to their discussion but I didn’t. Instead, I silently watched the checker ring up my order. The incident immediately brought to mind the old commercial from the seventies where tears run down the eye of an Indian brave as he paddles across a river filled with pollutants. I felt like that Indian as I listened to President Lincoln, the man who freed the slaves, badmouthed by a couple of assistants in a grocery store.

This was the same Lincoln who, during a triumphant walk through Richmond, told a group of bowing slaves to get up because the only king they should bow to was Jesus Christ. I wanted to explain to the clerks that men should be judged by the standards of the days in which they live. Some of Lincoln’s opinions may seem outlandish today, but during the 1860’s he was one of the most enlightened men on the continent. By the standards of the nineteenth century, black Americans had no better friend than Abraham Lincoln.

Race is the biggest taboo issue in America today. Almost everyone acknowledges this but acknowledgement does not make our dialogues any smoother. I discovered this for myself the other day after I wrote a column about rap music. It was a favorable elaboration upon one wrote for City-Journal by John McWhorter. Based on my observations of urban youth, I supported McWhorter’s claim that rap music keeps blacks down through its celebration of pointless rebellion, violence, and nihilism. I received many irate responses. One of them turned into a ten email debate with a reader. By the end of the discussion, we knew a great deal about one another and, vicariously, quite a bit about discussing race in America.

Our little dispute could well have been a microcosm of the nation as a whole. It is unfortunate that I, and numerous other Caucasians, do not always emphatically state our views when asked. Yet, there are major hazards to beware of when addressing race. You never know what the reaction of the person you’re speaking to may be and no one wants to get fired over a conversation.

I could tell that the young man at the other end of the server was not used to dealing with white people like me. He only knows whites who defer to him and agree when he says that he has been wronged. He has been conditioned into thinking that all whites will apologize for their ancestry. I, absolutely, and under no circumstance, will ever apologize for my ancestors. In fact, thank G-d for my ancestors! I wish there were more Americans like them.

He began our exchange by telling me that I shouldn’t be writing about rap music at all as I don’t know anything about it. He also believes that there is nothing wrong with it and that it doesn’t harm anyone. I countered by stating that, while it’s true that I don’t know all the names of the famous rappers, I have unfortunately been subjected to a ton of it and know firsthand adolescents who emulate the words and actions of their favorite stars.

The dialogue went downhill from there (if that’s possible). There was practically no common ground between us, yet I think that is how it should be. White Americans, if they honestly responded to the claims of black separatists and black powerites, would hear little with which to agree.

Most Caucasian Americans are hard-working and middle class. There are very few like Bill Gates or Paul Allen. Most of us make a decent wage and are content with it. We oppress no one. No ancestors of mine were in the United States before 1910, but, even if they were, it would be superfluous as I personally have committed no wrongs to anyone. I told the young man that white guilt is one of the most pernicious influences within our society. Although this white guilt has not hurt our economic success, it has made many whites regard themselves as being morally inferior to the rest of the population.

He made the point that “institutional racism” is the reason many blacks “have not made it.” I told him there was no such thing. It is a creation of the university Marxists who have substituted “African-Americans, Hispanics, women and gays” for the word “proletariat.” The entire concept of “oppressed” and “oppression” is merely idiotic Marxist claptrap. It’s a product of juvenile leftists and should be disregarded. Besides, if there were such a thing as institutional racism no blacks would have ever made it. They’re be no Cedric the Entertainer’s, Deion Sanders’, Tiger Woods’ or Halle Berry’s. If there were any truth in the flawed rubric of institutional racism, all the aforementioned successful blacks would have been poor sharecroppers rather than cultural icons.

We, of course, also clashed on affirmative action. He regarded it as a prerequisite for black success. He said, “The Supreme Court finally got it right.” I, on the other hand, think, “The Supreme Court wrote more legislation.” Clearly, affirmative action is one of the reasons blacks have not been more successful since 1970. You can’t put an average student in Cal Tech and expect them to flourish. They fail and the race hustlers could care less how the experience impedes their future development. Even more grievous, is that affirmative action gives racism the imprimatur of the state. A federal stamp of approval compounds its evil.

Towards the end of our exchange, the reader admitted that he felt blacks should not have to work more than one job and do overtime to get ahead in life. Their route should be more direct. He felt long hours were for immigrants and that “we’ve already played that game.” He argued that blacks have put their blood and sweat into this country’s infrastructure and deserve reparation for their effort.

Honestly, I have no respect for this argument whatsoever. The request for reparations could not be less valid. Blacks in America already have the world’s greatest reparation: United States citizenship. Every single one of the reader’s racial cousins in Africa, or anywhere else in the world for that matter, would kill to be in his shoes. They would stow away in a mouse trap just to get here and have an opportunity to be Americans. Most of them fantasize about an existence without murderous kleptomaniac dictators and having children who are free from disease. America is opportunity and blacks are no different from whites in that we all should be forever thankful that we somehow got to these shores.

I discovered that I profited greatly from this reader. Christopher Hitchens, in his fascinating book, Letters to a Young Contrarian, informs us that the great thing about argumentation is that both sides refine and modify their positions which doing it. I hold this to be true and my exchange with the young man is evidence of it.

In this particular argument, I realized something that I never had before. Clearly, it is conservatives like me who care about poor blacks (most, in fact, are middle class) as opposed to the pseudo-liberals. We offer them the best route for advancement. We want to challenge them and make them stronger. We resist the desire to infantilize them. By treating them like adults and inculcating responsibility through achievement, they will prosper just as every other group of Americans have before them.

My opponent, perhaps unconsciously, wants them to stay poor so he can continue to berate America and critique our way of life. Were their lot to suddenly improve, he’d have no positions and no identity.

Before this conversation, I never realized just how much that I am rooting for poor black folks. I want them to be as productive as everyone else and to “make it” in America. I want no less for them than I do for myself. It would please me to no end if all our citizens were grateful for what they have. No white people get anything out of a major percentage of the population being resentful and angry.

Racial harmony can only be achieved if we treat one another as individuals and not as members of fictitious classes. If you want to be oppressed you’ll find a way to be oppressed, and such a condition damages society as a whole. Racism is wrong in any of its manifestations. We will never all get along if we continue to pretend that some of us, due to the melanin content in our skin, are better than others. Period.

To comment on this article or express your opinion directly to the author, you are invited to e-mail Bernard at bchapafl@hotmail.com .


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: apology; oppression; race; victimhood; white; without
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To: WhiskeyPapa
[Walt] After 12/01/62, he makes no statements whatsoever about colonization.

Abraham Lincoln Papers at the Library of Congress.
Transcribed and Annotated by
the Lincoln Studies Center, Knox College. Galesburg, Illinois.

From Edward Bates to Abraham Lincoln, November 30, 1864

Washington, Nov 30 1864.

Honored Sir,

I beg your pardon for having overlooked, in the pressure of business, in my latter days in the office, the duty to give formal answer to your question concerning your power still to retain the Revd Mr Mitchell as your assistant or aid in the matter of executing the several acts of Congress relating to the emigration or Colonizing of the freed blacks.

It is too late for me now to give a formal opinion upon the question, as this is my last day in office. I can only say that, having examined all the acts referred to, I am satisfied that, notwithstanding the act which repeals the appropriation contingently, you still have something to do, under those acts; and therefore, that you have the same right to continue Mr Mitchell that you had to appoint him originally. And I hope it will be done, for he seems to be a good man, of zeal & capacity.

Most respectfully Sir

Your obt servt

Edwd. Bates

261 posted on 08/16/2003 3:33:12 AM PDT by nolu chan
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To: WhiskeyPapa
By the standards of the Wlat Brigade, James Mitchell is a "very loyal and capable Union man" and a "true patriot." Follow your leader. March with pride. Let the world see what the Wlat Brigade supports.

FROM THE PRESIDENTIAL PAPERS OF ABRAHAM LINCOLN
LIBRARY OF CONGRESS
Drafted by James Mitchell

THE LINCOLN COLONIZATION GAMEPLAN DRAFTED BY JAMES MITCHELL [Image file from the Library of Congress]

Transcript of Lincoln Colonization Gameplan drafted by James Mitchell

[Wlat 1785] Now, Mitchell was a very loyal and capable Union man. If President Lincon would go out of his way to help rebels, what would he do for true patriots?
LINK

Lincoln appointee James Mitchell referred to "the license of the races, which is giving to this continent a nation of bastards." That fits into an acceptable standard for Wlat and the Wlat Brigade.

A letter of December 1864 shows Lincoln still fighting to keep this piece of human garbage around.

All of the grotesque comments below are direct quotations of written statements by James Mitchell to Abraham Lincoln. After James Mitchell made these statements, Abraham Lincoln put him on the payroll and all of these statements and more were sent to the Government Printing Office for publication as a pamphlet at taxpayer expense. You can read the whole disgusting pamphlet at the provided link.

THIS IS WHAT WLAT DEFENDS

require a separation of the colored or negro race from us

Yet, terrible as is this civil war between men of kindred race for the dominion of the servant, future history will show that it has been moderate and altogether tolerable when contrasted with a struggle between the black and white race, which, within the next one or two hundred years must sweep over this nation,

the removal of the colored race to a proper locality . . . Surely this exercise of influence is a legitimate prerogative of the Chief Magistrate, the guardian of national peace, who, being convinced of impending danger to the country, has the undoubted right to notify the nation of its approach, and recommend the remedy.

Our danger in the future arises from the fact that we have 4,500,000 persons, who, whilst amongst us, cannot be of us - persons of a different race

The social and civil evils resulting from the presence of the negro race are numerous

the license of the races, which is giving to this continent a nation of bastards.

That political economist must be blind indeed; that statesman must be a shallow thinker, who cannot see a fearful future before this country, if the production of this mixed race is not checked by removal.

possibly the next great civil war will be the conflict of this race for dominion and existence.

this population is in the way of the peace of the country

Thus far we have found that their presence here disturbs our social structure. We come now to examine how far our civil structure is damaged by this population.

But there is one clause of this sacred compact which requires the Federal government to "guarantee to the several States a republican form of government." . . . When rightly construed it must and will require the gradual removal of such anti-republican elements and peoples as cannot be engrafted on the national stock

It is admitted on all hands that our mixed and servile population constitute the root of those issues and quarrels; what shall be done with them is the question of the hour.

this repulsive admixture of blood

the men of the Exeter Hall school, who, far removed from the scene of danger, see not the degradation of this admixture of race.

he does not choose to endanger the blood of his posterity by the proximity of such a population; that here is no command in the Word of God that will oblige him to place this race on the high road to such an amalgamation with his family

they rejected the black because they could not or would not amalgamate on legal or honorable terms.

Nothing but the authority of the Divine law will change his purpose to hedge himself in and erect legal protections against this possible admixture of blood,

Where men are truly moral and religious, the white and black races do not mix, so that the influence of religion will never effect fusion,

hatred of those who would engraft, as they say, negro blood on the population of their country

We must regard the extension of equal social and civil rights to this class of persons as distasteful to the mass of the nations; the majority will never submit to it

we cannot make republican citizens out of our negro population

a possible corruption of blood in future generations

The government of Great Britain is composed of a few thousand titled and privileged persons, located in a small island, who are born to rule and govern. From their isolated position it is not possible for them to come in contact with the numerous, heterogeneous, and inferior tribes and races under their rule. They are thus protected from possible admixture of inferior blood

How can such a people comprehend the necessity or use of removing the man of color?

to protect them against this repulsive admixture of blood

What is to protect us as a people from degenerating as a race, but the resolve to receive no blood from the other races but that which can be honorably and safely engrafted on the stock of the nation.

Let us then, earnestly and respectfully recommend as a remedy for our present troubles and future danger, the perfecting the proposed plans of the administration in regard to those two conflicting races, and the careful and gradual removal of the colored race to some desirable and convenient home.

Some affect to fear that the man of color will not remove to a separate locality. It is not to be expected that a race, which has hardly attained a mental majority, will rise in a day to the stature of the men who found empires, build cities, and lay the ground work of civil institutions like ours; nor should they be expected to do this unaided and alone. They should receive the kind attention, direction, and aid of those who understand such things; nor will the world condemn a gentle pressure in the forward course to overcome the natural inertia of masses long used to the driver's will and rod. Let us do justice in the provision we make for their future comfort, and surety they will do justice to our distracted Republic.

If they should fail to do this, there would then be more propriety in weighing the requirement of some to remove without consultation, but not till then.

We know that there is a growing sentiment in the country which considered the removal of the freed man, without consulting him, "a moral and military necessity" -- as a measure necessary to the purity of public morals and the peace of the country; and this unhappy war of white man with white man, about the condition of the black, will multiply this sentiment.

But we cannot go further now than suggesting, that the mandatory relation held by the rebel master should escheat to the Federal government in a modified sense, so as to enable his proper government and gradual removal to a proper home where he can be independent.

We earnestly pray that a perpetual barrier may be reared between us and that land of the mixed races of this continent - Mexico.

As Abraham and Lot agreed to separate their conflicting retainer and dependents, the one going to the right and the other to the left, so let those two governments agree to divide this continent between the Anglo-American and mixed races

262 posted on 08/16/2003 3:41:22 AM PDT by nolu chan
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To: nolu chan
President Lincoln, after 1862, abandoned plans for colonization, and you can't make the record show anything else.

Walt

263 posted on 08/16/2003 3:54:44 AM PDT by WhiskeyPapa (Virtue is the uncontested prize.)
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To: WhiskeyPapa
Lincoln, Cabinet meeting, April 14, 1865
as related by Gideon Welles, then Secretary of the Navy.

Louisiana, he said, had framed and presented one of the best constitutions that had ever been formed. [nc: Blacks were denied the right to vote.] He wished they had permitted negroes who had property, or could read, to vote; but this was a question which they must decide for themselves. Yet some, a very few of our friends, were not willing to let the people of the States determine these questions, but, in violation of first and fundamental principles, would exercise arbitrary power over them. These humanitarians break down all State rights and constitutional rights.

It does not matter what he was saying in public. THIS is what he was doing in the oral office. Just as it did not matter that your other hero, Slick Willie, said in public that he did not have sex with that woman, while in the oral office he was saying, "Yeah baby, yeah baby, oh yeah baby!!" WHAT HE ACTUALLY DID in the oral office is what counts.

264 posted on 08/16/2003 3:55:03 AM PDT by nolu chan
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To: nolu chan
Quote --Lincoln--.

Walt

265 posted on 08/16/2003 3:56:09 AM PDT by WhiskeyPapa (Virtue is the uncontested prize.)
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To: WhiskeyPapa
[Walt] President Lincoln, after 1862, abandoned plans for colonization, and you can't make the record show anything else.

THIS IS IN THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS

Abraham Lincoln Papers at the Library of Congress.
Transcribed and Annotated by
the Lincoln Studies Center, Knox College. Galesburg, Illinois.

From Edward Bates to Abraham Lincoln, November 30, 1864

Washington, Nov 30 1864.

Honored Sir,

I beg your pardon for having overlooked, in the pressure of business, in my latter days in the office, the duty to give formal answer to your question concerning your power still to retain the Revd Mr Mitchell as your assistant or aid in the matter of executing the several acts of Congress relating to the emigration or Colonizing of the freed blacks.

It is too late for me now to give a formal opinion upon the question, as this is my last day in office. I can only say that, having examined all the acts referred to, I am satisfied that, notwithstanding the act which repeals the appropriation contingently, you still have something to do, under those acts; and therefore, that you have the same right to continue Mr Mitchell that you had to appoint him originally. And I hope it will be done, for he seems to be a good man, of zeal & capacity.

Most respectfully Sir

Your obt servt

Edwd. Bates

266 posted on 08/16/2003 4:01:15 AM PDT by nolu chan
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To: nolu chan
LINCOLN: The place I am thinking about having for a colony is in Central America.

This statement is from 1862.

President Lincoln's letter to Governor Andrew is from 1864.

Who do you think you can fool? By 1864, President Lincoln had abandoned coloniization.

Walt

267 posted on 08/16/2003 4:01:18 AM PDT by WhiskeyPapa (Virtue is the uncontested prize.)
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To: dwd1; bedolido
Anyone who applied for admission to University of Alabama before George Wallace was president...

And when was George Wallace president, exactly???

bedolido: thanks for the article, good post.

268 posted on 08/16/2003 4:18:32 AM PDT by T-Bird45
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To: WhiskeyPapa
[Walt 253] This shows that Bennett is not a reputable historian, because Butler had -every- reason to lie. He was seeking office. The story made him look good; it made him look like an intimate of President Lincoln's which he certainly was not.

[Walt 255] There is no proof that Butler and Lincoln even met, and no way to corroborate Butler's story which, amazingly, he didn't bother to publish until 1892.

As you note in 255, Butler's Book was published in 1892. Could you please provide your documentation regarding Butler running for office in 1892?

More from Butler:

LINK

Benjamin F. Butler, Autobiography and Reminiscences (1892)

In the spring of 1863, I had another conversation with President Lincoln upon the subject of the employment of negroes. The question was, whether all the negro troops then enlisted and organized should be collected together and made a part of the Army of the Potomac and thus reinforce it.

We then talked of a favourite project he had of getting rid of the negroes by colonization, and he asked me what I thought of it. I told him that it was simply impossible; that the negroes would not go away, for they loved their homes as much as the rest of us, and all efforts at colonization would not make a substantial impression upon the number of negroes in the country.

Reverting to the subject of arming the negroes, I said to him that it might be possible to start with a sufficient army of white troops, and, avoiding a march which might deplete their ranks by death and sickness, to take in ships and land them somewhere on the Southern coast. These troops could then come up through the Confederacy, gathering up negroes, who could be armed at first with arms that they could handle, so as to defend themselves and aid the rest of the army in case of rebel charges upon it. In this way we could establish ourselves down there with an army that would be a terror to the whole South.

Our conversation then turned upon another subject which had been frequently a source of discussion between us, and that was the effect of his clemency in not having deserters speedily and universally punished by death.

I called his attention to the fact that the great bounties then being offered were such a temptation for a man to desert in order to get home and enlist in another corps where he would be safe from punishment, that the army was being continually depleted at the front even if replenished at the rear.

He answered with a sorrowful face, which always came over him when he discussed this topic: "But I can't do that, General." "Well, then," I replied, "I would throw the responsibility upon the general-in-chief and relieve myself of of it personally."

With a still deeper shade of sorrow he answered: "The responsibility would be mine, all the same."

269 posted on 08/16/2003 4:28:00 AM PDT by nolu chan
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To: T-Bird45; bedolido
My apology...Of course he was only governor of Alabama and a candidate for president...

And Lester Maddox was never president either...

Neither was Strom Thurmond...

Neither was Trent Lott....

Neither was Jesse Helms...

But they did have some interesting effects on people's lives didn't they?

However, aside from pointing out a valid mistake, you did only answer my question with a question...

As you are familiar with his activities, would you care to respond to the spirit of the statement which I made?....
I can admit where I was wrong in my facts but I hope you will not be willing to discuss the problem simply because of one error I made...

270 posted on 08/16/2003 7:37:21 AM PDT by dwd1 (M. h. D. (Master of Hate and Discontent))
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To: ATOMIC_PUNK; bedolido
Great article discussing racial issues. Thanks for the ping and post !

271 posted on 08/16/2003 9:12:04 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP (Check out the Texas Chicken D 'RATS!: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/keyword/Redistricting)
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To: WhiskeyPapa
Quote --Lincoln--.

I HAVE A WHITE DREAM
by Abraham Lincoln

Lincoln said he was in favor of the new territories "being in such a condition that white men may find a home."
Lincoln, Alton, Illinois, 10/15/1862

Lincoln's dream did not contain Indians or even Mexicans who he referred to as "mongrels."
Lincoln, CW 3:234-5

"Resolved, That the elective franchise should be kept pure from contamination by the admission of colored votes."
That got Lincoln's vote, January 5, 1836.

"in our greedy chase to make profit of the Negro, let us beware, lest we 'cancel and tear to pieces' even the white man's charter of freedom"
Lincoln, CW 2:276
Translation for the intellectually challenged:
The White Man's Charter of Freedom = The Declaration of Independence

Lincoln wanted the territories to be "the happy home of teeming millions of free, white prosperous people, and no slave among them"
Lincoln, 1854, CW 2:249

The territories "should be kept open for the homes of free white people"
Lincoln, 1856, CW 2:363

"We want them [the territories] for the homes of free white people."
Lincoln, CW 3:311

If slavery was allowed to spread to the territories, he said "Negro equality will be abundant, as every White laborer will have occasion to regret when he is elbowed from his plow or his anvil by slave n-----s"
Lincoln, CW 3:78 [Lincoln uses the N-word without elision]

"Is it not rather our duty to make labor more respectable by preventing all black competition, especially in the territories?"
Lincoln, CW 3:79

272 posted on 08/16/2003 11:24:41 AM PDT by nolu chan
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To: WhiskeyPapa
[Walt] By 1864, President Lincoln had abandoned coloniization.

ON NOVEMBER 30, 1864 WE FIND EDWARD BATES REPLYING TO A QUESTION POSED BY ABRAHAM LINCOLN ABOUT HOW TO KEEP JAMES MITCHELL ON THE PAYROLL TO AID IN THE MATTER OF EMIGRATION OR COLONIZATION OF BLACKS.


Abraham Lincoln Papers at the Library of Congress.
Transcribed and Annotated by
the Lincoln Studies Center, Knox College. Galesburg, Illinois.

From Edward Bates to Abraham Lincoln, November 30, 1864

Washington, Nov 30 1864.

Honored Sir,

I beg your pardon for having overlooked, in the pressure of business, in my latter days in the office, the duty to give formal answer to your question concerning your power still to retain the Revd Mr Mitchell as your assistant or aid in the matter of executing the several acts of Congress relating to the emigration or Colonizing of the freed blacks.

It is too late for me now to give a formal opinion upon the question, as this is my last day in office. I can only say that, having examined all the acts referred to, I am satisfied that, notwithstanding the act which repeals the appropriation contingently, you still have something to do, under those acts; and therefore, that you have the same right to continue Mr Mitchell that you had to appoint him originally. And I hope it will be done, for he seems to be a good man, of zeal & capacity.

Most respectfully Sir

Your obt servt

Edwd. Bates


In April 1865, Lincoln to General Butler, fully corroborated and matching other statements known to have been made by Lincoln, as quoted and authenticated by multiple reputable historians.

But what shall we do with the negroes after they are free? I can hardly believe that the South and North can live in peace, unless we can get rid of the negroes. Certainly they cannot if we don’t get rid of the negroes whom we have armed and disciplined and who have fought with us. . . . I believe that it would be better to export them all to some fertile country with a good climate, which they could have to themselves.

Benjamin F. Butler, Autobiography and Personal Reminiscences of Major-General Benjamin F. Butler: A Review of His Legal, Political, and Military Career (or, Butler’s Book) (Boston: A. M. Thayer & Co. Book Publishers, 1892), p. 903.

273 posted on 08/16/2003 11:37:07 AM PDT by nolu chan
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To: WhiskeyPapa
[Wlat 259] Lincoln abandoned colonization schemes after 1862.

[Wlat 263] President Lincoln, after 1862, abandoned plans for colonization, and you can't make the record show anything else.

[Wlat 267] By 1864, President Lincoln had abandoned coloniization.

[nc] Definitely by April 15, 1865.

274 posted on 08/16/2003 11:47:39 AM PDT by nolu chan
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To: nolu chan
"Certainly they cannot if we don’t get rid of the negroes whom we have armed and disciplined and who have fought with us. .

Wouldn't be something if this nutcase Lincoln actually started the war just so he could get rid of the blacks. Seems to fit, he wanted them deported before the war as the record shows. Obviously he could not get his way until he defeated the South. And now you showed he continued to that objective after the war until his final days. No wonder they had to make a myth out of the man.

275 posted on 08/16/2003 1:17:36 PM PDT by bjs1779
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To: WhiskeyPapa
There is no proof that Butler and Lincoln even met

Butler said they met and Hay's memo proves irrefutably that a meeting with Lincoln was scheduled at the time Butler claimed. That is proof enough for any reasonable and sane person.

It is also of note that TO DATE YOU HAVE REFUSED TO EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE THE HAY MEMO that proves you wrong. Seeing as I have documented it thoroughly and informed you exactly where you may verify its existence, it is not at all unreasonable for me to conclude that you are engaged in an act of willful dishonesty.

and no way to corroborate Butler's story which, amazingly, he didn't bother to publish until 1892.

He didn't publish his autobiography until 1892 either. Does that mean his recollections of his young life in that autobiography are without credibility either since he didn't write them until he was an old man?

276 posted on 08/16/2003 6:49:00 PM PDT by GOPcapitalist
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To: nolu chan
I beg your pardon for having overlooked, in the pressure of business, in my latter days in the office, the duty to give formal answer to your question concerning your power still to retain the Revd Mr Mitchell as your assistant or aid in the matter of executing the several acts of Congress relating to the emigration or Colonizing of the freed blacks.

Does this not sound like Bates had blown off a Lincoln previous request and is now responding to pressure?

277 posted on 08/16/2003 6:58:43 PM PDT by bjs1779
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To: WhiskeyPapa
"Lincoln gave it up and in February, 1864, ordered a ship to return the surviving colonists [from Ile A' Vache, Haiti] to the United States.

Incorrect. Lincoln had the Haiti colonists returned after the government cancelled a contract with the man who had set up the colony. The reason for cancellation? The guy turned out to be a scam artist and was stealing the funds, not some "change of heart" by Lincoln.

Congress gave the coup de grace to colonization in July, 1864, by repealing all provisions of the legislation of 1862 appropriating funds for colonization purposes."

And Lincoln contested this. It's one of the reasons he asked his AG for an opinion to keep on Mitchell in November 1864 and continue his colonization.

[James M. McPherson

...No wonder that quote has so many falsehoods in it!

David H. Donald wrote of Lincoln, "the failure of his colonization schemes had taught him that African-Americans were, and would remain, a permanent part of the American social fabric.

Unsubstantiated speculation. Lincoln never said anything about the failure of colonization, never repudiated it, and by all reasonable evidence believed in it till the day he died.

He believed that the more intelligent blacks, especially those who served in the army, were entitled to the suffrage.

...in some cases, yes. But that's not the issue. The issue is colonization, and absolutely ZERO evidence exists to suggest that he ever repudiated his previous belief.

As Gabor Boritt wrote, "Colonization was dead and Lincoln did not mourn. He did not march backwards."

False. After some in congress and his administration tried to kill off the colonization offfice, Lincoln went to bat for Mitchell, its commissioner, to keep him on the job and in pursuit of colonization. That was November 1864 and the proof is irrefutable.

In 1864, John Hay recorded in his diary that Lincoln had "sloughed off" all these notions of colonization.

Must've changed his mind again then! Bates' letter shows Lincoln was pushing colonization in November of that same year.

Lincoln abandoned colonization schemes after 1862.

Prove it then by quoting Lincoln repudiating colonization.

278 posted on 08/16/2003 7:05:25 PM PDT by GOPcapitalist
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To: GOPcapitalist; WhiskeyPapa
[Wlat 259] He believed that the more intelligent blacks, especially those who served in the army, were entitled to the suffrage. Quoting David H. Donald, _Lincoln,_ p. 583

NO! This is simply WRONG.

In his last cabinet meeting on the day he was shot, what Lincoln said was reported by Gideon Welles as follows:

Louisiana, he said, had framed and presented one of the best constitutions that had ever been formed. He wished they had permitted negroes who had property, or could read, to vote; but this was a question which they must decide for themselves. Yet some, a very few of our friends, were not willing to let the people of the States determine these questions, but, in violation of first and fundamental principles, would exercise arbitrary power over them. These humanitarians break down all State rights and constitutional rights.

Lincoln NEVER said any Black suffrage was an entitlement. He said it was his WISH. Elsewhere, he said he FAVORED it. But he emphatically denied that it was an entitlement.

279 posted on 08/17/2003 2:23:34 AM PDT by nolu chan
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To: WhiskeyPapa
[Walt 253] This shows that Bennett is not a reputable historian, because Butler had -every- reason to lie. He was seeking office. The story made him look good; it made him look like an intimate of President Lincoln's which he certainly was not.

[Walt 255] There is no proof that Butler and Lincoln even met, and no way to corroborate Butler's story which, amazingly, he didn't bother to publish until 1892.

[nolu chan 269] As you note in 255, Butler's Book was published in 1892. Could you please provide your documentation regarding Butler running for office in 1892?

You have claimed that Lerone Bennett, Jr., is NOT a reputable historian BECAUSE (your claim) "Butler had every reason to lie. He was seeking office."

You have provided no support for your claim that it would have somehow helped Butler to lie about Lincoln and colonization.

You claim that Butler was seeking office. You document the fact that Butler's Book was published in 1892. It appears that, in reality, Butler had not sought any political office in about 8 years. If you have anything whatever to support your claim that Butler was seeking any political office in 1892, please present it.

It appears that you have attempted to denigrate the reputation of Lerone Bennett, Jr., by using make-believe "facts." If there is any support whatever for your claim, please provide the evidence.

LINK

Robert C. Kennedy, HarpWeek

Sources consulted: Dictionary of American Biography;
Harper’s Weekly Encyclopedia of United States History; and>br> Mark Boatner, The Civil War Dictionary

Benjamin Franklin Butler
(5 November 1818 - 11 January 1893)
Source: Harper's Weekly

Active in the Democratic party, he served one term as state representative in 1853, one term as state senator in 1858, and ran unsuccessfully for governor in 1859. The following year, he supported John Breckinridge, the Southern Democrat, for president and again ran unsuccessfully for governor, this time on the ticket of the Breckinridge faction.

* * *

After the war, Butler returned to Congress as a Republican, serving from 1867 to 1875 and from 1877 to 1879. He enthusiastically backed the Radical Reconstruction policies of the Congressional Republicans. A vociferous, unrelenting critic of President Johnson, he authored the tenth article of impeachment aimed at the President’s verbal attacks on Congress. At the suggestion of the ailing Thaddeus Stevens, Butler became the lead House prosecutor at Johnson’s removal trial in the Senate. The Massachusetts Congressman’s poor performance, however, has often been cited as a factor in Johnson’s acquittal.

Butler was an almost perennial candidate for governor of Massachusetts, running unsuccessfully in 1871, 1873, 1874, 1878, and 1879, before being elected in 1882. In his final bid for office, he was the Presidential nominee of the Greenback-Labor and Anti-Monopoly parties in 1884, polling less than 2% of the popular vote. Butler died in Washington, D.C.

280 posted on 08/17/2003 2:31:50 AM PDT by nolu chan
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