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To: TigersEye
"I don't know how you can agree with me about that since I disagree with you"

LOL, now I'm confused!

In any event -- I don't know what you mean by Ying/Yang theory but I am familiar with steady states in biological systems and complex systems -- and if the the implication is that in this highly complex model it's quite possible for the extreme in one variable to be counteracted and lead to oscillations of highs and lows -- that makes perfect sense to me.

In fact, we already have lots of natural oscillators -- North Atlantic Basin etc. -- occuring on decadal patterns. And we have ice ages which may or may not be oscillating at a much longer periodicity, depending on what causes them.

I don't think I'd call one degree of temperature over the last century "negligible" -- there are changes in forestation, in tree lines, in flooding occuring that are predicted by a one degree increase. I just don't think the science is in that I'd call it "bad" either.

Again, I think Vostok settles the debate about whether the recent CO2 increases are negligible: they're not.

So, I agree that the predictive science is bad, and we don't in particular know what the effects of the "problem" will be. I disagree that we don't have a warming trend and accelerated increases in CO2 and methane.
46 posted on 07/09/2003 9:04:34 AM PDT by FreeTheHostages
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To: FreeTheHostages
In any event -- I don't know what you mean by Ying/Yang theory ...

In the context I used it it simply is meant to say that any extreme condition can only go so far before it collapses and the opposite condition becomes dominant. The climate can only become so warm at which point it will rapidly reverse its trend and fall to a below average state of temp. The historic record bears out that something limits the upper and lower extremes of climate.

I don't think I'd call one degree of temperature over the last century "negligible" -- there are changes in forestation, in tree lines, in flooding occuring that are predicted by a one degree increase. I just don't think the science is in that I'd call it "bad" either.

Those things are always changing and always have. They are only "good" or "bad" depending upon where you are and what you prefer. Some like it hot, some ... you get the point. A one degree temp. change is substantial in terms of the changes you cite. It is negligible in terms of effecting planetary stability of climate. The climate fluctuates between upper and lower limits. It always has and likely always will. We should probably hope it does.

I disagree that we don't have a warming trend and accelerated increases in CO2 and methane.

I can agree that we have both. But your own post shows that temp. change precedes CO2 change.

I am waiting for a response from lepton, who has told me there's science that (1) recognizes that there's been 1 degree heating but (2) notes that most of it occurred in the *first* half of the century, where as the increases in CO2 in Vostok are generally happen in the *second* half of the last century. that's interesting cause/effect data.

Heating precedes CO2 increases. It is merely an assumption to believe that correlation is necessarily indicative of causation but if it were this again shows that temp. rise causes CO2 rise, not the other way around.

51 posted on 07/09/2003 10:14:34 AM PDT by TigersEye (Joe McCarthy was right ... so was PT Barnum!)
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