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How Great Was Alexander?
U/C Berkeley ^ | 6-12-2003 | Kathleen Maclay

Posted on 06/13/2003 6:20:15 PM PDT by blam

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To: longtermmemmory
now we will have an alexander who was crogenically frozen in siberia and defrosted just in time to be recruited by the CIA, covertly trained, and was sent to take a shot on the grassy knoll.

Interesting that you should post this. There is a work of fiction by the same guy who wrote the "Destroyer" series of pulps about a Roman soldier who was frozen then thawed out in the 1960s. The name of the work is "The Far Arena" by Richard Ben Sapir.

Sapir is a hack, but this is a good, well-written story. The part where the Roman eviscerates a fencer sent to test him is chilling.

21 posted on 06/13/2003 8:17:23 PM PDT by strela ("Have Word Processor, Will Travel" reads the card of a man ...)
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To: Thinkin' Gal
How much did you have to pay Ringling Brothers and Barnum and Bailey for that picture?
22 posted on 06/13/2003 8:21:16 PM PDT by breakem
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To: blam
Let me guess, she'll give some woman or goddess credit for the spread of Greek culture. It's not enough Alexander was gay, he partied and the "professors" thought he was a chick because he was always drunk (no bias in academia there). I'm sure it was some butch Amazonian with one tit who saved Western Civ. and beat down Darius, renaming every city Alexandria all the way to India. And, it was probably some chick from the island of Lesbos who built the lighthouse.

23 posted on 06/13/2003 8:27:40 PM PDT by Porterville (Screw the grammar, full posting ahead.)
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The info on Dor was intersting...kinda get a nrrrrrrrr! on the Alexander/Greek Liberal journey.
I find Alexanders time to be filled with intrigues...like someone else was steering the Wonder Warrior allong in intervals.
The Egyptian visit..his becoming a God..then the "off to Persia" thing.
Have read a few things here and there that hint the Greeks were in cahoots with the Egyptian court..and played him like a fiddle..even fashioned a smooth prophecy thing to get him the hell out of Egypt and on his way.
By the Time Sekuder has bludgeoned his way thru Persia...he seems like a man who has lost vision..who understands he does not fit in back home.
He tries to go home somewhere..but its a death trail on the turn around from the Indus region...as he meets up with way pissed off Persians and others who see a chance to cut this vaunted Army down.

How great was Alexander?..Greek Business says Great,...Cultural crowd says Great...Gov says Great,..but I wonder if the Soldier in his Army thought so on the way back from India.

Alexander...he was a plow for Greece....and the system rolled on easily without him.

24 posted on 06/13/2003 8:28:31 PM PDT by Light Speed
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To: Light Speed
Alexander the Warrior

Battle of Granicus
In May of 334 BCE, Alexander defeated the Persians at the Battle of Granicus in Phrygia Minor (modern Turkey). Alexander was a determined fighter. He would stand side by side with his fellow fighters during battles (Fox 279). Because Alexander was out in the front of battle and wore an ornamented helmet, the Persians easily picked him out of the crowd. They surrounded him and beat him until general "Black" Cleitus saved Alexander (Green 41). Finally, the Macedonians forced the Persians back by slaughtering them. The Persians ended up running away or dying. His determination led Alexander to refuse to retreat or give up.

Battle of Issus
At the Battle of Issus in October 333, Alexander and Darius II fought in the Syrian mountains. The Macedonians quickly gained control, and Darius ran away leaving his wife, mother, and children behind. Alexander and some soldiers went searching for Darius but came back empty-handed. Even so, Darius' relatives were treated with respect. When Darius' mother, Sisygambus, was allowed to return to the Persians, she refused! (Green 237)

Egypt
Alexander moved on to Syria and Phoenicia. At Tyre, Alexander met opposition. Because of his intellect, Alexander built a land bridge that is still standing today to the island. Then, Alexander went to Egypt in November 332 BCE. The Egyptians were happy to see Alexander because he would free them of Persian rule. Alexander was determined to keep cultures unique although all the cultures would be under one rule. So Alexander left the Egyptians keep their religion and ideas. Alexander was ruler over the Egyptians, but he enlisted Egyptian governors to assist. The Egyptians gladly crowned Alexander the Great their pharaoh (Renault 107-109).

Battle of the Golden Gaugamela
Two years after the Battle of Issus, in modern Iraq, Alexander met Darius the III. Darius initially was winning the Battle of Gaugamela because the Macedonians were afraid of the Persian elephants and other exotic animals. Although the Persians had a good start, the Macedonians triumphed (Renault 119). Darius escaped, and Babylon willingly accepted Alexander as king. Next, Alexander moved into the Persian capitals of Persepolis and Pasargadae and stayed there throughout the winter. He visited the palace of Persepolis, which was built by Darius. Upon leaving in the spring, he burned down this sacred palace (Renault 131-132).

India
Next, Alexander moved his attention towards India. The last battle, Jalalpur, was against Porus, the ruler of India. On the Jhelum River (modern Pakistan), Alexander faced an army of 30,000 men and 100 elephants. Macedonian soldiers were either killed by being stomped on, speared by the opposing army, thrown by elephants' trunks to the ground, or punctured by elephants' tusks. After eight hours, Porus finally surrendered to Alexander the Great. Alexander moved toward the Indus River before heading back to Macedonia in 325 BCE (Renault 167-168).

25 posted on 06/13/2003 8:35:39 PM PDT by Porterville (Screw the grammar, full posting ahead.)
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To: Porterville
Alexander was a presence on the Battlefield to be sure..not many in History have so great a legacy.
He also had some good commanders under him which he could count on..like the ones who led his divided army on an end around on the Persians..covering ground in the night over mountain ranges that would be seen as untenable.

The return from the Indus region is not very glorius though..the hope of many of his soldiers cruelly ended as they fell out from simple things like footwear to illness..and got the chop as they went.

Kinda paralells the French Grande Arme as it got the chop after Moscow.

It appears the politcal movers in Greece were happy to have Alexander and his army away....happy next to have him gone from Egypt too.

To this day in Iran his name is despised...especially with the Zoarastrians.
Whatever was going on behind the scenes in Egypt....they seemed pressed to get him out.

Maybe someone reading along this thread with more info on Sekunder could shed some light on what was really going on in Egypts court.

26 posted on 06/13/2003 9:04:17 PM PDT by Light Speed
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To: Sparta
Tag you're it.
27 posted on 06/13/2003 9:37:19 PM PDT by Valin (Age and deceit beat youth and skill)
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To: sphinx; Toirdhealbheach Beucail; curmudgeonII; roderick; Notforprophet; river rat; csvset; ...
Alexander the (not so) Great ping!!!

If you want on or off the Western Civilization Military History ping list, let me know.
28 posted on 06/13/2003 9:55:13 PM PDT by Sparta (Tagline removed by moderator)
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To: Valin
Thanks for the ping. Victor Davis Hanson agrees with these researchers. He's not a big fan of Alexander the Great, if you read Carnage and Culture.
29 posted on 06/13/2003 9:57:07 PM PDT by Sparta (Tagline removed by moderator)
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To: Sparta
Alexander was "the Great" based on his military prowess-he was also cruel and ruthless, as Hansen noted. Regardless, he did found over 70 Greek colonies which both spread Hellenistic culture and imported Asian influences back to Greece proper. A Greek mosaic at a busy seaport on the Med does not change that.

"Whatever else he was, he was one of the supreme fertilizing forces in hitory. He lifted the civilized world out one groove and set it in another; he started a new epoch; nothing would be as it had been"
-Tarn
30 posted on 06/14/2003 4:41:57 AM PDT by mark502inf
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To: blam
"Alexander the Mediocre" just doesn't have the same flair...

BTW, he wasn't called "Great" for spreading Hellenism. He was called "Great" for conquering the mighty Persian Empire with a relative handful of troops. Tactically and Strategically the man was brilliant.

31 posted on 06/14/2003 5:05:16 AM PDT by Junior (Better living through chemistry)
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To: blam
Stewart and his "team" are just seeking publicity and the money from Getty proves it. Any Christian theologian (or Jewish) worth his salt or other classicists can refer anyone to myriad sources that prove that Greek culture spread throughout the western and asian world predating Alexander's exploits. Apparently Stewart hasn't done his homework or has a hidden agenda like many "scholars" do.
32 posted on 06/14/2003 9:05:59 AM PDT by eleni121
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To: Light Speed
Alexander was a presence on the Battlefield to be sure..not many in History have so great a legacy. He also had some good commanders under him which he could count on..like the ones who led his divided army on an end around on the Persians..covering ground in the night over mountain ranges that would be seen as untenable.

I think that you're omitting the major reason for the success of Alexander...the man who organized the Macedonian army and fighting tactics...Alexander's father, Phillip.

33 posted on 06/14/2003 12:47:07 PM PDT by curmudgeonII
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To: curmudgeonII
Thats an excellent point concerning King Philip...any other comments about Philip?
Have viewed a few revisionist documentaries on Alexander..not much said about Philip.
34 posted on 06/15/2003 10:52:37 AM PDT by Light Speed
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To: blam
we are challenging the view that it was Alexander who principally spread Greek culture throughout the Middle East.

What view is that? The Greek city-states were weak by the time Philip came along, and Alexander had little problem conquering Greece and then the ME by luck and generalship. Greek culture was all over the region and had been for a long time. Alexander died before he could turn to the west and conquer the Greek colonies in Italy and Spain.

35 posted on 06/15/2003 11:03:19 AM PDT by RightWhale (gazing at shadows)
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To: Junior
"He was called "Great" for conquering the mighty Persian Empire with a relative handful of troops."

Yep, and conquering a region is one thing... governing the region afterwards is an entirely different matter. (As current events still show us.) He spent no time governing the places he conquered, he just kept moving and conquering. He was a thug who didn't care about cultures or Aristotle.

36 posted on 06/15/2003 11:03:45 AM PDT by proust (Hello, Cthulhu!)
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To: Light Speed
...any other comments about Philip?

Phillip was a brilliant warrior from a semi-civilized outpost of Greece [Macedonia]. He had already subdued most opposition to him in Greece well before Alexander did anything worth while. The tactics he used were modified little or not at all by Alexander. Phillip has been largely eclipsed by Alexander partly because of Phillip's wife [Alexander's mother] who filled Alexander's head with a good deal of nonsense about Alexander's real father having been one of the deities, and also by many of the writers of the time who thought that Alexander was the Greecian equivalent of JFK or Bill Clinton - young, attractive, a master unprincipalled poltician with the morals of an alley cat.

37 posted on 06/15/2003 11:30:00 AM PDT by curmudgeonII
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To: Sparta
"Barf Alert" would have been a more appropriate warning!
38 posted on 06/15/2003 6:51:47 PM PDT by HighRoadToChina (Never Again!)
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To: Porterville

What is the differentiating point between Gengiz khan, Napoleon, and Alexander. Shouldn't they all be “The Great”


39 posted on 06/25/2004 5:04:03 PM PDT by stern
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Just adding this to the GGG catalog, not sending a general distribution.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on, off, or alter the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list --
Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
The GGG Digest
-- Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

40 posted on 06/06/2005 9:57:37 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (FR profiled updated Tuesday, May 10, 2005. Fewer graphics, faster loading.)
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