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F16 Pilots Expected Taliban Fire: US airmen never warned of Canadians' exercise.
The Ottawa Citizen ^ | January 6, 2003 | Glen McGregor

Posted on 01/06/2003 8:58:36 AM PST by quidnunc

The U.S. fighter pilot who dropped a bomb on Canadian troops in Afghanistan had been told to expect heavy concentrations of Taliban fighters in the area and was warned they could be equipped with anti-aircraft weapons.

The Citizen has learned that in a written statement taken four hours after the April 17 accident, Maj. Harry Schmidt said he had been told in a briefing that at least 2,000 Taliban were in the area southeast of Kandahar and were expected to receive anti-aircraft weapons from Iran to defend against coalition aircraft.

The Taliban had won allies in the area by successfully exploiting discontent over a poppy-eradication program that wiped out lucrative, but illegal, heroin operations, Maj. Schmidt said he had been told.

But it was not Taliban he saw when he first reported muzzle flashes on the ground. Canadian troops were conducting a live-fire drill on a firing range southeast of the Kandahar airport — a fact the pilots were never told about.

After his initial sighting from 21,000 feet, Maj. Schmidt says he banked his F16 into a hard turn to leave the area, but came back because he believed the ground forces were shooting at his lead pilot, Maj. William Umbach.

Maj. Schmidt requested permission to fire his machine-gun "long enough for my flight lead and I to egress successfully," he wrote.

The request was denied, but Maj. Schmidt thought he was still being fired at with a BM-21, a rocket-launched anti-aircraft weapon. The rounds appeared to be burning out around 10,000 feet — well below the pilots' estimated altitude of 15,000 feet to 18,000 feet — but he believed it was still a threat to both him and Maj. Umbach because of the projectiles' speed and height.

Maj. Schmidt declared self-defence and dropped a laser-guided bomb that killed four Canadians and wounded eight. Moments after the bomb struck, he was told by air controllers to "disengage, friendlies, Kandahar."

In his statement, Maj. Schmidt, 37, says that he believed the area was an active pocket of enemy activity and never expected friendly forces to be training in the area. "Friendlies executing live fire in a hostile zone and in the vicinity of friendly airplanes is unsatisfactory, adding to the fog of war," he wrote. "I did not possibly believe they could be friendlies. Otherwise, I certainly would have come off and held the weapon."

-snip-

(Excerpt) Read more at canada.com ...


TOPICS: Canada; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: canada
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Quote:

In his statement, Maj. Schmidt, 37, says that he believed the area was an active pocket of enemy activity and never expected friendly forces to be training in the area. "Friendlies executing live fire in a hostile zone and in the vicinity of friendly airplanes is unsatisfactory, adding to the fog of war," he wrote. "I did not possibly believe they could be friendlies. Otherwise, I certainly would have come off and held the weapon." … Maj. Schmidt claims he "repeatedly requested" more information about allied ground troops and their manoeuvres from the Coalition Air Operations Center (COAC) for more than a month before the accident.

These two pilots are being scapegoated to cover up SNAFUs in both the U.S. and Canadian chains of command.

According to reports, prior to the bombing incident the Canadians had been ordered to cease firing and had failed to do so.

I would be interested to know if the Canadians had even informed anyone in the U.S. chain of command that they would be holding a live-fire exercise that night.

Pure and simple, these two National guard pilots are being sacrificed to save the butts of some career officers in the U.S. and Canadian regular armed forces and as a sop to Canadian public opinion.

It's unacceptable!

1 posted on 01/06/2003 8:58:36 AM PST by quidnunc
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To: quidnunc
Let's hope they're acquitted at their trial. I believe they probably will be acquitted and their jury will conclude that their prosecution was an attempt to find scapegoats for mistakes made by higher level officers.
2 posted on 01/06/2003 9:04:46 AM PST by carl in alaska
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To: quidnunc
I would be interested to know if the Canadians had even informed anyone in the U.S. chain of command that they would be holding a live-fire exercise that night.

The mishap investigation found that they had done so, and that the pilots had been in receipt of that information.

Read-and-initial boards are a BITCH.

3 posted on 01/06/2003 9:06:09 AM PST by Poohbah
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: quidnunc
I am glad we have a Command In Chief that respects the military. This is much better than the political way the Clinton Admin. used the military...
5 posted on 01/06/2003 9:54:33 AM PST by Karsus
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To: Karsus
Karsus wrote: I am glad we have a Command In Chief that respects the military. This is much better than the political way the Clinton Admin. used the military...

Nuts!

You know as well as I do that the White House can't intervene in military disciplinary matters.

For them to do so would seriously compromise the authority of the military chain of command.

6 posted on 01/06/2003 10:06:07 AM PST by quidnunc
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To: quidnunc
in other words: "Oops!"
7 posted on 01/06/2003 10:07:19 AM PST by demosthenes the elder
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To: quidnunc
From what I read the Canadian family members don't want the pilots charged, or even to loose their reserve commission, they just want answers. They too are concerned that the pilots aren't at fault and that the error lie elsewhere. At the very least they want better communication on the battle field to help prevent future mistakes.
8 posted on 01/06/2003 10:13:17 AM PST by WellsFargo94
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To: Poohbah
FYI ping.

If this is the case, we're court-martialing the wrong guys. We ought to court-martial the guy who slipped up.
9 posted on 01/06/2003 10:17:08 AM PST by hchutch
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To: hchutch
Check my post #3...the mishap investigation found that the chain of command had notified all players, including the squadron, and that the pilots had read and initialed the read-an-initial board with the relevant data.
10 posted on 01/06/2003 10:20:05 AM PST by Poohbah
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To: cynaman
I'm interested in what drug to which you are referring, would it be prednizone or provigil or something else?
11 posted on 01/06/2003 10:20:28 AM PST by WellsFargo94
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To: WellsFargo94
I agree. Canadian public opinion is conserned with other things. I don't know any one interested in punishing the pilots. If anything, they want the truth, hoping it doesn't fall on Schmidt or Umbach. The truth , and nothing more. But don't screw it up by tryng to twist the truth around.

12 posted on 01/06/2003 10:28:25 AM PST by Snowyman
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To: Poohbah
I see.

Well, there's going to be problems for those pilots. Maybe they didn't read the board as thoroughly as they should have. Hopefully others will learn that lesson in the future.
13 posted on 01/06/2003 10:30:52 AM PST by hchutch
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To: Poohbah
I'd be interested in seeing where this is being reported. Are you able to provide a link for us?

My dh went to school with one of these pilots, and has only spoken of him as being a man of great character and integrity.
14 posted on 01/06/2003 10:43:51 AM PST by getmeouttaPalmBeachCounty_FL
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To: getmeouttaPalmBeachCounty_FL
I'd be interested in seeing where this is being reported. Are you able to provide a link for us?

It's been reported on FR...the Canadian and US mishap investigations both found that the information hit the R/I board at the squadron.

My dh went to school with one of these pilots, and has only spoken of him as being a man of great character and integrity.

Having great character and integrity doesn't mean he couldn't make a boneheaded decision, which is what he apparently did.

15 posted on 01/06/2003 10:48:40 AM PST by Poohbah
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To: Poohbah
Poohbah wrote: Having great character and integrity doesn't mean he couldn't make a boneheaded decision, which is what he apparently did.

From what I have read the pilots' actions were not unreasonable.

The standard has to be were their actions consistant with those of a reasonable and prudent person in light of their experience and what they knew.

I say they were.

Even if they had been aware of a live-fire exercise anywhere in the area would there be any reasonable expectation that any of that fire would be coming up in their direction?

Why would any friendlies have occasion to shoot into the air?

The only people having aircraft were on our side.

If there was any bone-headedness it was on the part of those who decided to do a night-firing exercise with tracer rounds in a combat zone in the vicinity of hostile forces and those up the chain of command who approved it.

16 posted on 01/06/2003 11:03:15 AM PST by quidnunc
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To: WellsFargo94
The drug is Provigil aka Modafinil which is a non-amphetamine stimulant, basically a vigilance-enhancing drug, without hypertensive effects. It is commonly used to treat Narcolepsy. So the other poster's comparison to "speed" is not correct. The company I work for is currently doing research on pilots in the centrifuge utilizing this drug.
17 posted on 01/06/2003 11:06:29 AM PST by ravingnutter
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To: quidnunc
From the article:

But two boards of inquiry, one Canadian, one led by the U.S. air force, found that the pilots were reckless and should have simply left the area if they thought they were being fired upon.

Right, at the first sign of hostile resistance abandon the mission and just bug out!

The time was that this was called cowardice in the face of the enemy and the culprit was stood up in front of a firing squad.

18 posted on 01/06/2003 11:13:15 AM PST by quidnunc
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To: quidnunc
The time was that this was called cowardice in the face of the enemy and the culprit was stood up in front of a firing squad.

That was before the days of airplanes that could cover 10 miles in one minute, and coalition military operations.

Our officers are deputies of Zeus; they must handle their ability to dish out death and destruction with care. These guys apparently did not do so.

19 posted on 01/06/2003 11:24:57 AM PST by Poohbah
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To: quidnunc
Why would any friendlies have occasion to shoot into the air?

I was taught it as a last-ditch method for marking our positions to friendly air at night during my time in the USMC.

Generally, if you have the luxury of time to carefully evaluate the application of lethal force, you should do so. These guys did not use the time they had available for such efforts, and the price tag was four dead Canadian soldiers.

20 posted on 01/06/2003 11:29:14 AM PST by Poohbah
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