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Christmas Before Christ? The Surprising Story
United Church of God ^ | 12/200 | Jerold Aust

Posted on 12/21/2002 11:21:49 AM PST by DouglasKC

Christmas Before Christ?
The Surprising Story


Most people know the Bible doesn't mention - much less sanctify - Christmas. Does it make any difference as long as it's intended to honor God and bring families together?

by Jerold Aust

S


everal months ago the popular American comedic actor Drew Carey was interviewed on an equally popular television talk show, The View. Mr. Carey surprised the audience when he addressed the value of telling children the truth about Santa Claus.

"I don't think you should tell kids that there is a Santa Claus," he said. "That's the first lie you tell your children." Instead, "tell kids that Santa's a character we made up to celebrate a time of the season." Otherwise "when kids get to be 5 ... they realize their parents have been lying to them their whole life."

Earlier in the year the Arts & Entertainment cable television channel aired a program about Christmas titled Christmas Unwrapped: The History of Christmas. The promo for this program read:

"People all over the world celebrate the birth of Christ on December 25th. But why is the Savior's nativity marked by gift- giving, and was He really born on that day? And just where did the Christmas tree come from?

"Take an enchanting journey through the history of the world's favorite holiday to learn the origins of some of the Western world's most enduring traditions. Trace the emergence of Christmas from pagan festivals like the Roman Saturnalia, which celebrated the winter solstice."

These two programs addressed the fact that Santa Claus is fictitious and that Christmas and its trappings emanate from pagan Roman festivals. By no means are these the only sources of information about the background of Santa Claus and Christmas.

Is there more to these ancient traditions and practices than meets the eye? And, more important, does it make any difference whether we continue them?

Celebration of the sun god

It may sound odd that any religious celebration with Christ's name attached to it could predate Christianity. Yet the holiday we know as Christmas long predates Jesus Christ. Elements of the celebration can be traced to ancient Egypt, Babylon and Rome. This fact doesn't cast aspersions on Jesus; it does, however, call into question the understanding and wisdom of those who, over the millennia, have insisted on perpetuating an ancient pagan festival that has devolved through much of the world as Christmas.

Members of the early Church would have been astonished to think that the customs and practices we associate with Christmas would be incorporated into a celebration of Christ's birth. Not until several centuries had passed would Christ's name be attached to this popular Roman holiday.

As Alexander Hislop explains in his book The Two Babylons: "It is admitted by the most learned and candid writers of all parties that the day of our Lord's birth cannot be determined, and that within the Christian Church no such festival as Christmas was ever heard of till the third century, and that not till the fourth century was far advanced did it gain much observance" (1959, pp. 92-93).

As for how Dec. 25 became the date for Christmas day, virtually any book on the history of Christmas will explain that this day was celebrated in the Roman Empire as the birthday of the sun god. Explaining how Dec. 25 came to be selected as the supposed birthday of Jesus, the book 4000 Years of Christmas says: "For that day was sacred, not only to the pagan Romans but to a religion from Persia which, in those days, was one of Christianity's strongest rivals. This Persian religion was Mithraism, whose followers worshiped the sun, and celebrated its return to strength on that day" (Earl and Alice Count, 1997, p. 37).

Not only was Dec. 25 honored as the birthday of the sun, but a festival had long been observed among the heathen to celebrate the growing amount of daylight after the winter solstice, the shortest day of the year. The precursor of Christmas was in fact an idolatrous midwinter festival characterized by excess and debauchery that predated Christianity by many centuries.

Pre-Christian practices incorporated

This ancient festival went by different names in various cultures. In Rome it was called the Saturnalia, in honor of Saturn, the Roman god of agriculture. The observance was adopted by early Roman church leaders and given the name of Christ ("Christ mass," or Christmas) to conciliate the heathen and swell the number of the nominal adherents of Christianity.

The tendency on the part of third-century Catholic leadership was to meet paganism halfway-a practice made clear in a bitter lament by the Carthaginian philosopher Tertullian.

In 230 he wrote of the inconsistency of professing Christians. He contrasted their lax and political practices with the strict fidelity of the pagans to their own beliefs: "By us who are strangers to Sabbaths, and new moons, and festivals [the biblical festivals spelled out in Leviticus 23], once acceptable to God, the Saturnalia, the feasts of January, the Brumalia, and Matronalia, are now frequented; gifts are carried to and fro, new year's day presents are made with din, and sports and banquets are celebrated with uproar; oh, how much more faithful are the heathen to their religion, who take special care to adopt no solemnity from the Christians" (Hislop, p. 93).

Failing to make much headway in converting the pagans, the religious leaders of the Roman church began compromising by dressing the heathen customs in Christian-looking garb. But, rather than converting them to the church's beliefs, the church became largely converted to non-Christian customs in its own religious practices.

Although at first the early Catholic Church censured this celebration, "the festival was far too strongly entrenched in popular favor to be abolished, and the Church finally granted the necessary recognition, believing that if Christmas could not be suppressed, it should be preserved in honor of the Christian God. Once given a Christian basis the festival became fully established in Europe with many of its pagan elements undisturbed" (Man, Myth & Magic: The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Mythology, Religion, and the Unknown, Richard Cavendish, editor, 1983, Vol. 2, p. 480, "Christmas").

Celebration wins out over Scripture

Some resisted such spiritually poisonous compromises. "Upright men strove to stem the tide, but in spite of all their efforts, the apostasy went on, till the Church, with the exception of a small remnant, was submerged under Pagan superstition. That Christmas was originally a Pagan festival is beyond all doubt. The time of the year, and the ceremonies with which it is still celebrated, prove its origin" (Hislop, p. 93).

The aforementioned Tertullian, for one, disassociated himself from the Roman church in an attempt to draw closer to the teachings of the Bible.

He wasn't alone in his disagreement with such trends. "As late as 245 Origen, in his eighth homily on Leviticus, repudiates as sinful the very idea of keeping the birthday of Christ as if he were a king Pharaoh" (The Encyclopaedia Britannica, 11th edition, Vol. 6, p. 293, "Christmas").

Christmas was not made a Roman holiday until 534 (ibid.). It took 300 years for the new name and symbols of Christmas to replace the old names and meaning of the midwinter festival, a pagan celebration that reaches back so many centuries.

No biblical support for Santa Claus

How did Santa Claus enter the picture? Why is this mythical figure so closely aligned with the Christmas holiday? Here, too, many books are available to shed light on the origins of this popular character.

"Santa Claus" is an American corruption of the Dutch form "San Nicolaas," a figure brought to America by the early Dutch colonists (The Encyclopaedia Britannica, 11th edition, Vol. 19, p. 649, "Nicholas, St."). This name, in turn, stems from St. Nicholas, bishop of the city of Myra in southern Asia Minor, a Catholic saint honored by the Greeks and the Latins on Dec. 6.

He was bishop of Myra in the time of the Roman emperor Diocletian, was persecuted, tortured for the Catholic faith and kept in prison until the more tolerant reign of Constantine (ibid.). Various stories claim a link from Christmas to St. Nicholas, all of them having to do with gift-giving on the eve of St. Nicholas, subsequently transferred to Christmas Day (ibid.).

How, we might ask, did a bishop from the sunny Mediterranean coast of Turkey come to be associated with a red-suited man who lives at the north pole and rides in a sleigh pulled by flying reindeer?

Knowing what we have already learned about the ancient pre-Christian origins of Christmas, we shouldn't be surprised to learn that Santa Claus, too, is nothing but a figure recycled from ancient pagan beliefs.

The trappings associated with Santa Claus-his fur-trimmed wardrobe, sleigh and reindeer-reveal his origin from the cold climates of the far North. Some sources trace him to the ancient Northern European gods Woden and Thor, from which the days of the week Wednesday (Woden's day) and Thursday (Thor's day) get their designations (Earl and Alice Count, pp. 56-64). Others trace him even farther back in time to the Roman god Saturn and the Greek god Silenus (William Walsh, The Story of Santa Klaus, pp. 70-71).

Was Jesus born in December?

Most Bible scholars who have written on the subject of Jesus' birth conclude that, based on evidence in the Bible itself, there is no possible way Christ could have been born anywhere near Dec. 25.

Again we turn to Alexander Hislop: "There is not a word in the Scriptures about the precise day of [Jesus'] birth, or the time of the year when He was born. What is recorded there, implies that at what time soever His birth took place, it could not have been on the 25th of December. At the time that the angel announced His birth to the shepherds of Bethlehem, they were feeding their flocks by night in the open fields ... The climate of Palestine ... from December to February, is very piercing, and it was not the custom for the shepherds of Judea to watch their flocks in the open fields later than about the end of October" (Hislop, p. 91, emphasis in original).

He goes on to explain that the autumn rains beginning in September or October in Judea would mean that the events surrounding Christ's birth recorded in the Scriptures could not have taken place later than mid-October, so Jesus' birth likely took place earlier in the fall (Hislop, p. 92).

Further evidence supporting Jesus' birth in the autumn is that the Romans were intelligent enough not to set the time for taxation and travel in the dead of winter, but during more-favorable conditions. Since Joseph's lineage was from Bethlehem, and since he had to travel from Nazareth in Galilee to Bethlehem, and since his expectant wife Mary traveled with him, it would have been nearly impossible for Joseph and Mary to make the trip in the winter. As recorded by Luke, Mary delivered Jesus in Bethlehem during the time of census and taxation-which no rational official would have scheduled for December.

What difference does it make?

The Bible gives us no reason-and certainly no instruction-to support the myths and fables of Christmas and Santa Claus. They are tied to the ways of this world and contrary to the ways of Christ and His holy truth. "Do not learn the way of the Gentiles," God tells us (Jeremiah 10:2).

Professing Christians should examine the background of the Christmas holiday symbols and stop telling their children that Santa Claus and his elves, reindeer and Christmas gift-giving are connected with Jesus Christ. Emphatically they are not! God hates lying. "These six things the LORD hates, yes, seven are an abomination to Him: a proud look, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that are swift in running to evil, a false witness who speaks lies, and one who sows discord among brethren" (Proverbs 6:16-19).

Recommended Reading

Does it matter to God which days and customs we celebrate to honor Him? Why do so many of our holidays have strange customs sanctioned nowhere in the Bible?

Many people are shocked to discover the origins of most popular holidays. They're also surprised to find that the feast days God commands in the Bible-the same days kept by Jesus Christ and the apostles-are almost universally ignored.

Be sure to request your free copies of the booklets Holidays or Holy Days: Does It Matter Which Days We Keep? and God's Holy Day Plan: The Promise of Hope for All Mankind.

Christ reveals that Satan the devil is the father of lies (John 8:44). Parents should tell their children the truth about God and this world's contrary and confusing ways. If we don't, we only perpetuate the notion that it is acceptable for parents to lie to their children.

Can a professing Christian promote a pagan holiday and its symbols as something that God or Christ has approved? Let's see what God thinks about people using customs and practices rooted in false religion to worship Him and His Son. We find His views clearly expressed in both the Old and New Testament.

God specifically commands His people not to do what early church leaders did when they incorporated idolatrous practices and relabeled them Christian. Before they entered the Promised Land, God gave the Israelites a stern warning: "Take heed to yourself that you are not ensnared to follow them [the inhabitants of the land],... and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, 'How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do likewise.'

"You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way; for every abomination to the LORD which He hates they have done to their gods ... Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it" (Deuteronomy 12:30-32, emphasis added throughout).

Many centuries later the apostle Paul traveled to and raised up churches in many gentile cities. To the members of the Church of God in Corinth, a city steeped in idolatry, Paul wrote: "... What fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God ... Therefore 'Come out from among them and be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, and I will receive you.' ... Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God"
(2 Corinthians 6:14-17; 7:1).

Instead of allowing members to rename and celebrate customs associated with false gods, Paul's instructions were clear: They were to have nothing to do with them. He similarly told Athenians who were steeped in idolatry, "Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent" (Acts 17:30).

God alone has the right to decide the special days on which we should worship Him. Jesus Christ plainly tells us that "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth" (John 4:24). We cannot honor God in truth with false practices adopted from the worship of nonexistent gods.

Jesus said: "This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men" (Mark 7:6-7). With God no substitutes are acceptable. It makes no difference that Christians mean well when they observe Christmas. God is not amused or pleased.

The knowledge of how to honor Almighty God, who made us, preserves us and gives us eternal life, has been made available to you. Will you honor God or follow the traditions of mankind?



TOPICS: Culture/Society; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: axegrinders; christ; christmas; kooks; scroogewasright
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To: crystalk
>This is a canard, tired of hearing about it.

canard (ke-närd´) noun
1. An unfounded or false, deliberately misleading story.

No, Christmas is the canard.  Compare:  A New Look at the Myth of Santa Claus versus the Reality of Jesus Christ

Like an election, there is a time for campaigning (convincing) and a time for voting.  It is past the time for convincing.  Vote in any box you choose.  Have thine own way.

Lu 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

2Ti 3:8  Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

1Jo 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Re 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

21 posted on 12/21/2002 3:18:13 PM PST by 2sheep
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To: DouglasKC
read later
22 posted on 12/21/2002 3:23:20 PM PST by LiteKeeper
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To: LiteKeeper
Lest we forget, this may all be a "tempest in a teapot."

2:16,17 - "Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day, things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ."

Galatians 4:9-11 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again?
(10) You observe days and months and seasons and years.
(11) I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain.

I fear that we waste far too much time arguing over things which are a "mere shadow of what is to come" and pay far too little attention to Christ, Himself

23 posted on 12/21/2002 3:36:15 PM PST by LiteKeeper
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To: 2sheep
OK, I confess. I'm an idolater. I'm a Christian that celebrates Christmas. I have a tree, decorations (including an electronic Santa) and like to go to Christmas parties.

Late at night I perform a special pagan ritual. It is commonly known as the "Jingle Bell Twist". I do this around my tree. I then bow down to my electronic Santa and mumble the infamous pagan words "Merry Christmas".

On Christmas eve, I read the sections of the Bible dealing with the birth of Christ. Of course I don't really mean anything by this; I just like to make fun of it.

On Christmas day, I attend church services early in the day. I of course don't mean it. It is just to hide the fact that I've converted to paganism. I have relatives come over (or I go over to be with them). They are "Christians" that also celebrate Christmas, so they are pagans too. We involve ourselves in pagan rituals such as talking, giving/receiving gifts, eating a wonderful pagan meal and simply enjoying eachother's pagan company. It is nice to be able to hang out with other pagans.

After the day is done, I pray to my pagan gods and do that dance around my tree again. Then it is off to bed. I need to rest up for next year's pagan extravaganza.

</sarcasm>

24 posted on 12/21/2002 3:46:08 PM PST by jwillis1010
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To: Junior
Should Christians celebrate pagan holy days and partake in pagan festivals?

Didn't someon once say that a little leven levens the whole lump?

25 posted on 12/21/2002 3:46:22 PM PST by Eagle Eye
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To: jude24
Big freakin' deal. The fact of the matter is that they are still overtly Christian.

Isn't renaming pagan celebrations similar to putting new wine into old skins? Using pagan deities and symbols with new 'Christian' names hardly replaces the old spiritual aspects of those celebrations.

You seem to advocate using 'liberty' to practice paganism.

26 posted on 12/21/2002 3:52:20 PM PST by Eagle Eye
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To: jwillis1010; Thinkin' Gal; Prodigal Daughter
Perhaps you have your own personal sea of glass awaiting you.


A Santa Claus cap lies covered with glass amid the debris in the parking
lot of the Wal-Mart store in Newton, Miss., Thursday, Dec. 19, 2002,
following a tornado. The tornado smashed into stores jammed with
holiday shoppers, injuring about 40 people, at least two critically,
authorities said. (AP Photo/Rogelio Solis)

27 posted on 12/21/2002 3:54:22 PM PST by 2sheep
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To: LiteKeeper
>pay far too little attention to Christ, Himself

If a person refuses to obey Him, they don't know Him.

1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
 

De 32:12 So the LORD alone did lead him, and there was no strange god with him.

28 posted on 12/21/2002 4:02:06 PM PST by 2sheep
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To: LiteKeeper
De 32:12 So the LORD alone did lead him, and there was no strange god with him.

Israel was led out of bondage when there were no strange god found in it, and into bondage when there were.  If a person chooses to whore around with strange gods (Idolatry), then it is an easy step to whore around with another man's wife Adultery/Fornication/Unfaithfulness which IS Idolatry.).  Any god will do, any woman will do.  Same principle.

Jesus said, Joh 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

29 posted on 12/21/2002 4:04:42 PM PST by 2sheep
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To: DouglasKC
Thanks for posting the truth. Now watch the hypocrites crawl out from the woodwork in anger.

age old story....
30 posted on 12/21/2002 4:07:32 PM PST by ALS
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To: 2sheep
I think we should just start calling you "Osama". You're no different in your intolerance of others. I would rather be bathed in a "sea of glass" then be associated with a first rate kook like yourself. As a Christian I reject your vision of Christianity. It is insulting to anyone who has a tolerant heart or a brain.

This is a long winded way of saying that "Christians" like you make me sick.

Merry F*&^%*# Christmas you self righteous twit.
31 posted on 12/21/2002 4:12:11 PM PST by jwillis1010
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To: DouglasKC
This is not anything new, ya know. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that if the world was pagan when Christianity emerged that the two must have intertwined so that civil and social moores didn't erupt with indignation over the loss of one and the ascendency of the other.

Of course Santa is not in the bible. And who knows if the Wise Men gave gifts, the Bible says they did. St. Nicholas evolved into Santa, but so what? A little fantasy is good for the soul. Childhood should not be all truth and grim.
Kids find out the tuth and life goes on, but they always look back at the wonder of Santa and Christmas in their childhoods.

Such nonsense. The hope is that they can make GOD go away, and with him all morality. Then they have an open playing field and they, the Powerful, will become the gods.

There is a quote I read once that said "One day all the gods died laughing when one old grim beard of a God said "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." It doesn't matter how they died, But they did die and Christianity will not.
32 posted on 12/21/2002 4:15:59 PM PST by wingnuts'nbolts
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To: jude24; Eagle Eye
>Christmas is from the Saturnalia. Big freakin' deal.

Freakin' and other words are models after F---ing and Frigging which are related to illicit sex, witchcraft and strange gods.  If the Holy Spirit was resident in your heart, He would be telling you to get rid of the garbage...to choose godliness and not resist truth.

Frigg (frîg) or Frigga, Norse mother goddess and the wife of WODEN. Of great importance in GERMANIC RELIGION, she was queen of the heavens, a deity of love and the household.
Your use of the above F-word is reflective of your heart condition.  It is apparent that what dwells within is not holy.

Pr 4:23 Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.

Mt 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

Jesus said we can tell who is true and false by inspecting fruit.  

Mt 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

>The fact of the matter is that they are still overtly Christian.

Actually Christmas is overtly pagan.

33 posted on 12/21/2002 4:18:05 PM PST by 2sheep
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To: jwillis1010
Jeremiah 10
10:1
Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
10:2
Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
10:3
For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
10:4
They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
10:5
They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go.
34 posted on 12/21/2002 4:38:05 PM PST by ALS
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To: crystalk
Merry Christmas, and I predict that will mean something after

Merry Christmas to you. Yeah, it will be around after, too.

35 posted on 12/21/2002 4:38:28 PM PST by RightWhale
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To: Izzy Dunne
Why, exactly, does reading about how the celebration WASN'T invented by Christ or Christians "take all the joy out of things" for you ???

Consider them conquered territory. They used to be pagan days of celebration; now they're Christian days of celebration.

We have the freedom in Christ to celebrate Christmas if we choose. If you choose not to take advantage of that freedom and stay enslaved to the past, then that's your loss.

36 posted on 12/21/2002 4:40:23 PM PST by DallasMike
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To: jwillis1010; ALS; Eagle Eye; Thinkin' Gal
>I think we should just start calling you "Osama". You're no different in your intolerance of others.  I would rather be bathed in a "sea of glass" then be associated with a first rate kook like yourself. As a Christian I reject your vision of Christianity. It is insulting to anyone who has a tolerant heart or a brain.

Tolerance is part of the STRONG DELUSION which is a propaganda technique of satanic globalists (See 122 ) and which includes Ecumenism, Pluralism, Ceasefire, Centrism, Disarmament, Flatteries, Tolerance, Multiculturalism, Diversity, Compromise, Unity, Cooperation, and "Peace and Security."  They are all tools of the enemy used to defeat America, the West and Christendumb.  They are the doctrine of the antichrist and directly opposite to what the L~rd requires.  Tolerance causes one to be Lukewarm and those who yield to it will be spewed out.

 Would Your Church Allow You To Be Like Jesus? -- This link might help you determine what Jesus expected Christians to be like.

>Merry F*&^%*# Christmas you self righteous twit.

You had a choice to yield to righteousness or to yield to a demon leading you to unrighteousness.  You have made a poor choice.

Ro 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

It is up to you to mortify your own flesh, or you will get a demon as a helpmeet just as you evidenced above.

Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: 6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

 "Judge Rightly" Is Not Some Guy’s Name

 Nicer than God

 Nice is NOT a fruit of the Spirit

 CHRISTIANS ARE TOO NICE........!!!!!!!

 When nice is a vice

 HELP MY INTOLERANCE

37 posted on 12/21/2002 4:40:31 PM PST by 2sheep
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To: 2sheep
Actually Christmas is overtly pagan.

Not in my household. See my other post for a dose of sanity.

38 posted on 12/21/2002 4:41:20 PM PST by DallasMike
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To: DallasMike; ALS; Eagle Eye
>They used to be pagan days of celebration; now they're Christian days of celebration.

Who said so?  You or G~d?  Show me where He changed, please.  Chapter and verse.

Ps 15:4 In whose eyes a vile person is contemned; but he honoureth them that fear the LORD. He that sweareth to his own hurt, and changeth not.

39 posted on 12/21/2002 4:58:02 PM PST by 2sheep
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To: RightWhale; ALS; Eagle Eye; DouglasKC; Thinkin' Gal; Prodigal Daughter; babylonian; shaggy eel; ...
>>Merry Christmas, and I predict that will mean something after

>Merry Christmas to you. Yeah, it will be around after, too.

I remembered the other day that someone had a dream or vision of the attack against America "on Christmas" so I did an internet search.  I found TWO, not just one, which said it would be on Christmas and at night.  Neither person knew what year this would occur.  Radar should be looking for more than Santa and his reindeer in the sky at night.  I don't know if that is true or not.  If it is and it doesn't happen this year, then perhaps you have another year to seek the L~rd for repentance.

40 posted on 12/21/2002 5:11:52 PM PST by 2sheep
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