Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Christmas Before Christ? The Surprising Story
United Church of God ^ | 12/200 | Jerold Aust

Posted on 12/21/2002 11:21:49 AM PST by DouglasKC

Christmas Before Christ?
The Surprising Story


Most people know the Bible doesn't mention - much less sanctify - Christmas. Does it make any difference as long as it's intended to honor God and bring families together?

by Jerold Aust

S


everal months ago the popular American comedic actor Drew Carey was interviewed on an equally popular television talk show, The View. Mr. Carey surprised the audience when he addressed the value of telling children the truth about Santa Claus.

"I don't think you should tell kids that there is a Santa Claus," he said. "That's the first lie you tell your children." Instead, "tell kids that Santa's a character we made up to celebrate a time of the season." Otherwise "when kids get to be 5 ... they realize their parents have been lying to them their whole life."

Earlier in the year the Arts & Entertainment cable television channel aired a program about Christmas titled Christmas Unwrapped: The History of Christmas. The promo for this program read:

"People all over the world celebrate the birth of Christ on December 25th. But why is the Savior's nativity marked by gift- giving, and was He really born on that day? And just where did the Christmas tree come from?

"Take an enchanting journey through the history of the world's favorite holiday to learn the origins of some of the Western world's most enduring traditions. Trace the emergence of Christmas from pagan festivals like the Roman Saturnalia, which celebrated the winter solstice."

These two programs addressed the fact that Santa Claus is fictitious and that Christmas and its trappings emanate from pagan Roman festivals. By no means are these the only sources of information about the background of Santa Claus and Christmas.

Is there more to these ancient traditions and practices than meets the eye? And, more important, does it make any difference whether we continue them?

Celebration of the sun god

It may sound odd that any religious celebration with Christ's name attached to it could predate Christianity. Yet the holiday we know as Christmas long predates Jesus Christ. Elements of the celebration can be traced to ancient Egypt, Babylon and Rome. This fact doesn't cast aspersions on Jesus; it does, however, call into question the understanding and wisdom of those who, over the millennia, have insisted on perpetuating an ancient pagan festival that has devolved through much of the world as Christmas.

Members of the early Church would have been astonished to think that the customs and practices we associate with Christmas would be incorporated into a celebration of Christ's birth. Not until several centuries had passed would Christ's name be attached to this popular Roman holiday.

As Alexander Hislop explains in his book The Two Babylons: "It is admitted by the most learned and candid writers of all parties that the day of our Lord's birth cannot be determined, and that within the Christian Church no such festival as Christmas was ever heard of till the third century, and that not till the fourth century was far advanced did it gain much observance" (1959, pp. 92-93).

As for how Dec. 25 became the date for Christmas day, virtually any book on the history of Christmas will explain that this day was celebrated in the Roman Empire as the birthday of the sun god. Explaining how Dec. 25 came to be selected as the supposed birthday of Jesus, the book 4000 Years of Christmas says: "For that day was sacred, not only to the pagan Romans but to a religion from Persia which, in those days, was one of Christianity's strongest rivals. This Persian religion was Mithraism, whose followers worshiped the sun, and celebrated its return to strength on that day" (Earl and Alice Count, 1997, p. 37).

Not only was Dec. 25 honored as the birthday of the sun, but a festival had long been observed among the heathen to celebrate the growing amount of daylight after the winter solstice, the shortest day of the year. The precursor of Christmas was in fact an idolatrous midwinter festival characterized by excess and debauchery that predated Christianity by many centuries.

Pre-Christian practices incorporated

This ancient festival went by different names in various cultures. In Rome it was called the Saturnalia, in honor of Saturn, the Roman god of agriculture. The observance was adopted by early Roman church leaders and given the name of Christ ("Christ mass," or Christmas) to conciliate the heathen and swell the number of the nominal adherents of Christianity.

The tendency on the part of third-century Catholic leadership was to meet paganism halfway-a practice made clear in a bitter lament by the Carthaginian philosopher Tertullian.

In 230 he wrote of the inconsistency of professing Christians. He contrasted their lax and political practices with the strict fidelity of the pagans to their own beliefs: "By us who are strangers to Sabbaths, and new moons, and festivals [the biblical festivals spelled out in Leviticus 23], once acceptable to God, the Saturnalia, the feasts of January, the Brumalia, and Matronalia, are now frequented; gifts are carried to and fro, new year's day presents are made with din, and sports and banquets are celebrated with uproar; oh, how much more faithful are the heathen to their religion, who take special care to adopt no solemnity from the Christians" (Hislop, p. 93).

Failing to make much headway in converting the pagans, the religious leaders of the Roman church began compromising by dressing the heathen customs in Christian-looking garb. But, rather than converting them to the church's beliefs, the church became largely converted to non-Christian customs in its own religious practices.

Although at first the early Catholic Church censured this celebration, "the festival was far too strongly entrenched in popular favor to be abolished, and the Church finally granted the necessary recognition, believing that if Christmas could not be suppressed, it should be preserved in honor of the Christian God. Once given a Christian basis the festival became fully established in Europe with many of its pagan elements undisturbed" (Man, Myth & Magic: The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Mythology, Religion, and the Unknown, Richard Cavendish, editor, 1983, Vol. 2, p. 480, "Christmas").

Celebration wins out over Scripture

Some resisted such spiritually poisonous compromises. "Upright men strove to stem the tide, but in spite of all their efforts, the apostasy went on, till the Church, with the exception of a small remnant, was submerged under Pagan superstition. That Christmas was originally a Pagan festival is beyond all doubt. The time of the year, and the ceremonies with which it is still celebrated, prove its origin" (Hislop, p. 93).

The aforementioned Tertullian, for one, disassociated himself from the Roman church in an attempt to draw closer to the teachings of the Bible.

He wasn't alone in his disagreement with such trends. "As late as 245 Origen, in his eighth homily on Leviticus, repudiates as sinful the very idea of keeping the birthday of Christ as if he were a king Pharaoh" (The Encyclopaedia Britannica, 11th edition, Vol. 6, p. 293, "Christmas").

Christmas was not made a Roman holiday until 534 (ibid.). It took 300 years for the new name and symbols of Christmas to replace the old names and meaning of the midwinter festival, a pagan celebration that reaches back so many centuries.

No biblical support for Santa Claus

How did Santa Claus enter the picture? Why is this mythical figure so closely aligned with the Christmas holiday? Here, too, many books are available to shed light on the origins of this popular character.

"Santa Claus" is an American corruption of the Dutch form "San Nicolaas," a figure brought to America by the early Dutch colonists (The Encyclopaedia Britannica, 11th edition, Vol. 19, p. 649, "Nicholas, St."). This name, in turn, stems from St. Nicholas, bishop of the city of Myra in southern Asia Minor, a Catholic saint honored by the Greeks and the Latins on Dec. 6.

He was bishop of Myra in the time of the Roman emperor Diocletian, was persecuted, tortured for the Catholic faith and kept in prison until the more tolerant reign of Constantine (ibid.). Various stories claim a link from Christmas to St. Nicholas, all of them having to do with gift-giving on the eve of St. Nicholas, subsequently transferred to Christmas Day (ibid.).

How, we might ask, did a bishop from the sunny Mediterranean coast of Turkey come to be associated with a red-suited man who lives at the north pole and rides in a sleigh pulled by flying reindeer?

Knowing what we have already learned about the ancient pre-Christian origins of Christmas, we shouldn't be surprised to learn that Santa Claus, too, is nothing but a figure recycled from ancient pagan beliefs.

The trappings associated with Santa Claus-his fur-trimmed wardrobe, sleigh and reindeer-reveal his origin from the cold climates of the far North. Some sources trace him to the ancient Northern European gods Woden and Thor, from which the days of the week Wednesday (Woden's day) and Thursday (Thor's day) get their designations (Earl and Alice Count, pp. 56-64). Others trace him even farther back in time to the Roman god Saturn and the Greek god Silenus (William Walsh, The Story of Santa Klaus, pp. 70-71).

Was Jesus born in December?

Most Bible scholars who have written on the subject of Jesus' birth conclude that, based on evidence in the Bible itself, there is no possible way Christ could have been born anywhere near Dec. 25.

Again we turn to Alexander Hislop: "There is not a word in the Scriptures about the precise day of [Jesus'] birth, or the time of the year when He was born. What is recorded there, implies that at what time soever His birth took place, it could not have been on the 25th of December. At the time that the angel announced His birth to the shepherds of Bethlehem, they were feeding their flocks by night in the open fields ... The climate of Palestine ... from December to February, is very piercing, and it was not the custom for the shepherds of Judea to watch their flocks in the open fields later than about the end of October" (Hislop, p. 91, emphasis in original).

He goes on to explain that the autumn rains beginning in September or October in Judea would mean that the events surrounding Christ's birth recorded in the Scriptures could not have taken place later than mid-October, so Jesus' birth likely took place earlier in the fall (Hislop, p. 92).

Further evidence supporting Jesus' birth in the autumn is that the Romans were intelligent enough not to set the time for taxation and travel in the dead of winter, but during more-favorable conditions. Since Joseph's lineage was from Bethlehem, and since he had to travel from Nazareth in Galilee to Bethlehem, and since his expectant wife Mary traveled with him, it would have been nearly impossible for Joseph and Mary to make the trip in the winter. As recorded by Luke, Mary delivered Jesus in Bethlehem during the time of census and taxation-which no rational official would have scheduled for December.

What difference does it make?

The Bible gives us no reason-and certainly no instruction-to support the myths and fables of Christmas and Santa Claus. They are tied to the ways of this world and contrary to the ways of Christ and His holy truth. "Do not learn the way of the Gentiles," God tells us (Jeremiah 10:2).

Professing Christians should examine the background of the Christmas holiday symbols and stop telling their children that Santa Claus and his elves, reindeer and Christmas gift-giving are connected with Jesus Christ. Emphatically they are not! God hates lying. "These six things the LORD hates, yes, seven are an abomination to Him: a proud look, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that are swift in running to evil, a false witness who speaks lies, and one who sows discord among brethren" (Proverbs 6:16-19).

Recommended Reading

Does it matter to God which days and customs we celebrate to honor Him? Why do so many of our holidays have strange customs sanctioned nowhere in the Bible?

Many people are shocked to discover the origins of most popular holidays. They're also surprised to find that the feast days God commands in the Bible-the same days kept by Jesus Christ and the apostles-are almost universally ignored.

Be sure to request your free copies of the booklets Holidays or Holy Days: Does It Matter Which Days We Keep? and God's Holy Day Plan: The Promise of Hope for All Mankind.

Christ reveals that Satan the devil is the father of lies (John 8:44). Parents should tell their children the truth about God and this world's contrary and confusing ways. If we don't, we only perpetuate the notion that it is acceptable for parents to lie to their children.

Can a professing Christian promote a pagan holiday and its symbols as something that God or Christ has approved? Let's see what God thinks about people using customs and practices rooted in false religion to worship Him and His Son. We find His views clearly expressed in both the Old and New Testament.

God specifically commands His people not to do what early church leaders did when they incorporated idolatrous practices and relabeled them Christian. Before they entered the Promised Land, God gave the Israelites a stern warning: "Take heed to yourself that you are not ensnared to follow them [the inhabitants of the land],... and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, 'How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do likewise.'

"You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way; for every abomination to the LORD which He hates they have done to their gods ... Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it" (Deuteronomy 12:30-32, emphasis added throughout).

Many centuries later the apostle Paul traveled to and raised up churches in many gentile cities. To the members of the Church of God in Corinth, a city steeped in idolatry, Paul wrote: "... What fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God ... Therefore 'Come out from among them and be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, and I will receive you.' ... Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God"
(2 Corinthians 6:14-17; 7:1).

Instead of allowing members to rename and celebrate customs associated with false gods, Paul's instructions were clear: They were to have nothing to do with them. He similarly told Athenians who were steeped in idolatry, "Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent" (Acts 17:30).

God alone has the right to decide the special days on which we should worship Him. Jesus Christ plainly tells us that "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth" (John 4:24). We cannot honor God in truth with false practices adopted from the worship of nonexistent gods.

Jesus said: "This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men" (Mark 7:6-7). With God no substitutes are acceptable. It makes no difference that Christians mean well when they observe Christmas. God is not amused or pleased.

The knowledge of how to honor Almighty God, who made us, preserves us and gives us eternal life, has been made available to you. Will you honor God or follow the traditions of mankind?



TOPICS: Culture/Society; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: axegrinders; christ; christmas; kooks; scroogewasright
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 161-180181-200201-220 ... 301-314 next last
To: DallasMike
Of course they apply to me -- they apply to all of us. But what does that have to do with the issue we're discussing? You're using 2sheep's circular reasoning.

I really do know where your unbelief is coming from because I was there not to terribly long ago. The thought that really opened up my mind was that the most godless, anti-relgious people in America celebrate Christmas in almost the exact same fashion as most Christians do. That told me right there who had won in the battle to Christianize pagan holidays.

181 posted on 12/23/2002 5:49:16 PM PST by DouglasKC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 176 | View Replies]

To: LiteKeeper
For a time, the celebration of Christmas was even outlawed by the various churches, particularly because there was no Biblical basis for it.

Then they should have also outlawed their own church buildings since there is no Biblical basis for them.

The New Testament is full of references against organized religion as now practiced.

182 posted on 12/23/2002 6:01:56 PM PST by leadhead
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 90 | View Replies]

To: DouglasKC
You need to do a real bible study on it...you'll find it fascinating.

Acutally, I have. I've done a word-by-word study on the book of Romans from start to finish.

Romans is explicit on the purpose of the law (which contains your Jewish holy days): "We have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so thatwe serve, in newness of spirit, and not in oldness of the letter." (Romans 7:6). The old laws no longer are a sword suspended over the neck of the Christian, but are done away with. In ancient Greek culture, the child, once he reaches the age of majority, does not revert back to his pedagogue (The NASB renders this Greek word "tutor" in Gal 3:24).

The holy days had their fulfillment in Christ -- their purpose was to be a kind of divine advertisement of what was to come. For instance, the Day of Atonement siginified the future propitiatory death of Christ. Once Christ's propitiatory death has come, what need have we for the feast day? That's sort of like downloading the trailer of a movie you have the DVD for -- completely superfluous.

183 posted on 12/23/2002 6:08:47 PM PST by jude24
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 180 | View Replies]

To: All
God help us.

Is there a conservative forum that is not dominated by Bush-bots and fundamentalist Christians?

If so, please direct me there.

184 posted on 12/23/2002 6:24:24 PM PST by iconoclast
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 183 | View Replies]

To: jude24
The holy days had their fulfillment in Christ -- their purpose was to be a kind of divine advertisement of what was to come. For instance, the Day of Atonement siginified the future propitiatory death of Christ. Once Christ's propitiatory death has come, what need have we for the feast day? That's sort of like downloading the trailer of a movie you have the DVD for -- completely superfluous.

No doubt they were shadows of what is to come and memorial of what has come. But Paul didn't understand that they were done away with.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

They ARE a shadow of things to come. Paul was writing how many years after Christ death here? Thirty or so? Thirty or so years have gone by and Paul thinks the holy days and sabbaths ARE, not were shadows of things to come.

But what's really interesting is if you take out the words, punctuation and numbered verses that translators add to the greek to make it more "clear":

Then do not let anyone judge you in eating or in drinking or in part of a feast, or of a new moon or of sabbaths, which are a shadow of coming things, but the body of Christ.

What does it say? Kind of changes the whole meaning when read as it was originally. It seems to be saying that you shouldn't let anyone judge your for how you observe God's Holy Days except for the body of Christ. Your brethren. And the greek here isn't referring to any other days except the ones God designated as holy.

Believe it or not.

185 posted on 12/23/2002 6:40:46 PM PST by DouglasKC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 183 | View Replies]

To: iconoclast
Is there a conservative forum that is not dominated by Bush-bots and fundamentalist Christians? If so, please direct me there.

lol...come on in the waters fine!

186 posted on 12/23/2002 6:42:29 PM PST by DouglasKC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 184 | View Replies]

To: DallasMike
You can't be serious. The two biggest events of the year for modern "christians" are not kept by any christians in the bible. And you wanna play pretend me not?

You know so little that you actually have ignored all references to the prolific admonishments of such practices.

A prison of fools, self deception be thy name.
187 posted on 12/23/2002 6:43:48 PM PST by ALS
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 170 | View Replies]

To: DallasMike
"Being persecuted for your faith is one thing; being corrected because you're preaching silliness and calling it sound doctrine is another thing altogether."

You just described nearly every pulpit in America.

188 posted on 12/23/2002 6:46:07 PM PST by ALS
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 175 | View Replies]

To: ALS
The two biggest events of the year for modern "christians" are not kept by any christians in the bible.

Read what Jude24 said. Then read my proof in 2sheep logic that using the internet is a sin. See if you can understand the logical fallacy.

And please don't use the word Christian in quotes when referring to me. I don't doubt your salvation, just your common sense.

189 posted on 12/23/2002 6:47:56 PM PST by DallasMike
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 187 | View Replies]

To: Eagle Eye
I would be hard pressed to find anything not previously used by someone. But what if our customs have been tainted: they are redeemed in Christ, just as we ourselves are redeemed. I do not worship my greenery nor my candlelight, nor do I see it as a symbol of some pagan deity: rather, greenery I bring in as a symbol of my Lord's triumphant life, even through the winter of sin's gloom, and the candle as a symbol of His triumphant light, scattering all the darkness of death. Certainly, evergreens and candles have been misused: but does this mean I must reject them as evil? No! They were made by God, and even if they had nothing symbolic at all, and served no other purpose than to look nice, I would still bring them in my house and give God thanks for their loveliness.

And some things are hardly pagan at all: Santa, for one, who, while taken to extremes by an unbelieving world eager for something that seems to dissasociate with the holiday's true significance, still embodies the generosity and eagerness to give all believers are to have. Oh, you might come up with some dim association with Nimrod or some other figure: but what element of our faith can you not do that too?

But, I will say, if you choose, for matters of conscience, to not celebrate this season, I say all the power to you. It takes a firm conscience, though I doubt its wisdom, to "resist". I hope you do not swear off all celebration, even if you disagree on the time and mode (which is quite all right)- for we have all the reason to celebrate and be joyful!

190 posted on 12/23/2002 7:03:50 PM PST by Cleburne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 166 | View Replies]

To: DallasMike
Why do you lean so heavily on logic when discussing the bible? Is not that what Satan leaned on in the desert with Christ? Common sense is meant to convey obviousness within the context of the subject at hand. A dung beetle will fair little in applying its logic in how to navigate in a lava field. There's a time and place for all. Sometimes you have to think outside the collection plate. Stick with us here skippy.

As for your problem with the word "christian".
Eliminate your habit of cursory reading of my post and your problem will disappear. You assigned yourself to the word, not me.
191 posted on 12/23/2002 7:04:38 PM PST by ALS
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 189 | View Replies]

To: DouglasKC
You utter the typical confusions of the modern escapist mentality.

The bible is filled with pretypes. Mirrors, reflections and shadows of things to come. None of which lose their power, their relevancy and their hold, because they are.

Christ said He did not come to do away with the law, and indeed abided by it. As did His apostles, yet all we hear from the escapists is what a prison it is to follow in His footsteps and to notice His lead.

Satan could utter the same belief system, and sure enough he does.

wake up
192 posted on 12/23/2002 7:11:48 PM PST by ALS
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 185 | View Replies]

To: ALS
One has to use a certain amount of deduction on these sorts of matters, because the Bible nowhere specifically addresses whether or not we should celebrate Christmas. It neither specifically ordains it nor condemns it. You infer from what is said one way, I infer another.
193 posted on 12/23/2002 7:13:15 PM PST by Cleburne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 191 | View Replies]

To: ALS
You utter the typical confusions of the modern escapist mentality.

lol...you need to check who you addressed this to...

194 posted on 12/23/2002 7:17:04 PM PST by DouglasKC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 192 | View Replies]

To: 2sheep
I've just posted the scripture and you have yet again DENIED IT.

A lie from the pit of Hell.

I denied, and will continue to deny, your willful abuse of Scripture, intended to lay burdens too heavy to be born and lead us back into bondage to the curse of the Law.

Repent of your foolish sophistry; repent of your legalism.

I posted the whole verse but you chose to cut off the parts that offend you.

Another lie.

I focused it on idolatry because you did.

You also cut the above verse off before the next word in the list of bad fruit:  witchcraft.

Do you want to accuse me of something, heretic?

195 posted on 12/23/2002 7:20:04 PM PST by A.J.Armitage
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 165 | View Replies]

To: DouglasKC
You are reading this from a 21st century modern american viewpoint that does not believe that God created any days as holy or sanctified.

Are we to believe that under some other viewpoint, "One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God," means that we must observe certain days and must not observe others? Postmodernism, anyone?

196 posted on 12/23/2002 7:26:36 PM PST by A.J.Armitage
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 180 | View Replies]

To: iconoclast
There's one here.
197 posted on 12/23/2002 7:31:41 PM PST by A.J.Armitage
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 184 | View Replies]

To: DouglasKC
Perhaps I clicked on the wrong name.
198 posted on 12/23/2002 7:36:49 PM PST by ALS
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 194 | View Replies]

To: Cleburne
The bible says nothing about xmas? ya sure??

Jeremiah 10 10:1 Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
10:3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
10:4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
10:5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go.

199 posted on 12/23/2002 7:40:10 PM PST by ALS
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 193 | View Replies]

To: ALS
Why do you lean so heavily on logic when discussing the bible? Is not that what Satan leaned on in the desert with Christ?

There's true logic and there's false logic. Satan relied on false logic in his temptation. Jesus relied on true logic to rebut him. I've demonstrated 2sheep's circular reasoning against celebrating Christmas to be false logic (and no, I'm not comparing 2sheep to Satan).

God is the author of logic and it would be hard to live in a universe where things didn't function in a logical, orderly fashion. Jesus used logic in his parables and Paul employed logic as pretty much his sole method of argument in his epistles.

So why are you so against using logic? Could it be because you recognize that your position is illogical?

200 posted on 12/23/2002 7:43:12 PM PST by DallasMike
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 191 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 161-180181-200201-220 ... 301-314 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson