CA: Plastic pipe ban is ruled illegal

Sac Bee ^ | 12/21/02 | Aurelio Rojas

[NormsRevenge]

Plastic pipe manufacturers Friday hailed a court ruling that could clear the way for their product to be used in homes statewide as a victory for consumers over politics.

The industry sued the state in September, alleging Gov. Gray Davis' administration forced new home buyers to spend millions of additional dollars on housing by restricting the use of a plastic water pipe known as PEX.

[evolved_rage]

I've also heard that there is something a plumber can do while fitting copper pipes that makes the joints not last as long, so as to get repeat business. I believe this scam is harder to do with plastic. Have you heard of that???

[Jhoffa_]

No, I haven't..

I suppose it's possible to do a superficial joint or somethign that wouldn't last as long, but by and large a good solder joint should last as long as the plumber does.

[PAR35]

If the long term performance is like some of the earlier plastic pipe, then this may be good news for lawyers.

[Jhoffa_]

Some of these joints couplers failed and led to millions...

Rather..

[John Jorsett]

Ping. At least one Davis bribe comes unraveled.

[Wonder Warthog]

PEX is "cross-linked polyethylene" and PVC is polyvinylchloride.

[blam]

I went to Glendora this summer to help my son re-do the bathroom in his rent house and was outraged to find that copper piping was required. It costs more and took ten times longer to do.

[daviddennis]

Wouldn't plastic pipe be more flexible and therefore more likely to survive one of those tiresome earthquakes we have every once in a while?

I'd think that would give the nod to plastic, at least around here.

D

[NormsRevenge]

A most perPEXing development for ol' GraYout and his donors, indeed.

[Jhoffa_]

Oh yeah. It's not cheap by any means.

My parents moved their kitchen and them moved the washer/dryer upstairs.. It cost allot more for the parts I did in copper and some of the soldering presented a bit of a fire hazzard.

Had to cover things with wet rags and the whole bit. Imagine what a union goon, (or three or four) dragging his feet would consume for a similar job in flat rate labor?

[TheSpottedOwl]

But, this absolute fact, the stuff could have negative environmental effects! Take a six foot length of the stuff and wrap the first six inches of one end with black tape. Then, grasping the taped end (and, assuming you have a reasonable eye and reasonable hand/eye coordination), swing from the heels at every spotted owl you see.

OUCH!!!!

[Jhoffa_]

Wouldn't plastic pipe be more flexible and therefore more likely to survive one of those tiresome earthquakes we have every once in a while?

Above ground and with small gauges, a several foot span of either would flex sufficiently as to render it immune, imo.

Copper is actually a pretty soft metal.

I bet galvanized iron wouldn't get off so easily though..

[RGSpincich]

Soldering may be enjoyable

Oh yeah, especially the horizontal joints with that little bit of water that you can't get rid of.

[muir_redwoods]

Californians still use copper? Why? Plastic works just as well and is easier to install, You don't need any special training, really, to use it and no need to sweat a joint. It's only reasonable and rational and ...

Oh wait, now I understand. Never mind.

[Rodney King]

The plumbers union also gets their firemen union buddies to complain that in the event of a fire, the PVC gives off noxious fumes. I'm surprised they didn't use this line in this article.

[Petronski]

As a home owner with plastic piping I can do my own plumbling work if I had copper pipes I would need to call a plumber in order to do what is simple mantainence with plastic

What is so damned difficult about plumbing with copper? If you personally can handle working with plastic pipes, you have 90% of the skills you need to work with copper. Try it sometime, you will find this is true.

[MineralMan]

Exactly. I use PVC outdoors for plumbing, but would absolutely never allow it inside walls. Copper is much, much more reliable, especially on hot water lines. It can also be grounded, which PVC cannot. Even with GFI circuit breakers, the additional safety of grounded plumbing is valuable. So it costs $500 more to plumb a house with copper. So what? Plastic is for sewage and drainage, in my expert opinion. For water under pressure, copper wins every time. As for repairs. I can solder up a leaky pipe with a coupling just as fast as I can do the same job for plastic. If you get to specify...specify copper for all in-wall plumbing. For external plumbing, plastic's OK.

[snopercod]

PEX is short for Cross-Linked Polyethylene.

It comes in rolls, and is cut to length with a ratcheting cutter like is used for rigid PVC [Poly Vinyl Chloride] pipe. The natural color is translucent white, but most plumbers use blue for cold and red for hot. Yes, it is suitable for hot water.

It is crimped onto brass fittings with copper rings. The crimpers cost about $100, and usually two are needed - one for 1/2" and one for 3/4" PEX tubing. Around here, you can rent the crimpers for $10 per day.

PEX can be imbedded in concrete floors for hydronic heating purposes.

I can tell you that ALL new homes in my part of North Carolina use PEX for potable water. (I installed Type L Copper in the house I am building, because I'm a traditionalist, I guess. I sorta' wish I had used PEX, now.)

[Mr. Bird]

Yes, yes. But the point of this article was that people weren't even given the option of PEX. I remember a few years ago steel frame houses were on the rise because the cost of steel had made it a very attractive alternative. Whatever your preference is, don't you think we should be able to decide for ourselves?

[elbucko]

But copper plumbing, once one gets some practice soldering, is actually quite an enjoyable and easy thing to do.

That's for sure. "Sweating" or heating up a copper joint with a small, cheap, MAP torch from Home Depot and letting the soldier melt and seal the joint is not rocket science. The biggest risk is, if you are an idiot and light yourself on fire.