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Global Warmers Admit No Solutions
Fox News ^ | 11/01/ 2002 | Steven Milloy

Posted on 12/13/2002 10:21:33 AM PST by ancient_geezer

Edited on 04/22/2004 12:35:18 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

No treaty will prevent global warming, says a key scientist who believes manmade climate change is happening. That's bad news for the United Nations' bureaucrats who are meeting in New Dehli to conclude a treaty to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.


(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: climate; globalwarminghoax; warming
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Just a little something to keep the pot boiling :O)
1 posted on 12/13/2002 10:21:33 AM PST by ancient_geezer
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To: *Global Warming Hoax
Mark for reference.
2 posted on 12/13/2002 10:27:43 AM PST by ancient_geezer
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To: ancient_geezer
If he'd led with this whopper, I'd know how much creedence to give these guys:

Global-scale nuclear power from fission isn't a solution for energy needs as there's only a 30-year supply of uranium for fuel -- "hardly a basis for energy policy," according to Wigley et al.

3 posted on 12/13/2002 10:28:41 AM PST by big gray tabby
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To: big gray tabby
Doom n' Gloom. The credo of the Liberal Party.
4 posted on 12/13/2002 10:42:09 AM PST by TakeitBack
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To: ancient_geezer; PeaceBeWithYou
Great article -- thanks for the post.

5 posted on 12/13/2002 11:11:30 AM PST by RandyRep
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To: ancient_geezer
Since Uncle Wigly admits that there are no solutions, he should simply shut up and go get ready to die.
6 posted on 12/13/2002 11:15:17 AM PST by johniegrad
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To: johniegrad
The other reason why Treaties will not do anything about climate changes:

Water Vapor Rules the Greenhouse

Just how much of the "Greenhouse Effect" is caused by human activity?

It is about 0.28%, if water vapor is taken into account-- about 5.53%, if not.

This point is so crucial to the debate over global warming that how water vapor is or isn't factored into an analysis of Earth's greenhouse gases makes the difference between describing a significant human contribution to the greenhouse effect, or a negligible one.


7 posted on 12/13/2002 11:21:27 AM PST by ancient_geezer
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To: ancient_geezer
Why wouldn't water vapor be counted as a green house gas? It is. That's a fact.

Based on the article, I computed the area of a solar array in outer space that would generate all the current US energy, from the sun: 108 miles in diameter. To double the area, it would be 154 miles in diameter. The energy can then be beamed by microwave or laser to mountain distribution stations. Just don't fly through the beam. ;)

As a side benefit, it (the energy generating solar collector), can be a space based missile defense.

This is my favorite high tech solution to this so-called crisis.
8 posted on 12/13/2002 12:03:04 PM PST by Forgiven_Sinner
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bttt
9 posted on 12/13/2002 12:50:58 PM PST by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Forgiven_Sinner

Why wouldn't water vapor be counted as a green house gas?

Counting water vapor as a greenhouse gas throws the IPPC's global warming caused by human activity theory into the trash can. IPPC tries to treat CO2 as the primary causitive(i.e. forcing) agent of climate temperture variation with watervapor being an effect of CO2 induced heating. CO2 is the tail wagging the dog and butterfly causing the hurricane.

Problem is the models fail to reflect what actually is happening in the atmosphere and fail miserably in "predicting" even past climate events, much less future ones.

10 posted on 12/13/2002 1:00:10 PM PST by ancient_geezer
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To: Forgiven_Sinner

Based on the article, I computed the area of a solar array in outer space that would generate all the current US energy, from the sun: 108 miles in diameter.

How much energy does it take to create such an array and place it in orbit. From what I understand, the energy required to make such an array exceeds the expected total cummulative output from it.

11 posted on 12/13/2002 1:02:56 PM PST by ancient_geezer
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To: ancient_geezer
"Just a little something to keep the pot boiling."

Sure, that'll help with the warming! ;^)
12 posted on 12/13/2002 1:07:42 PM PST by headsonpikes
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To: ancient_geezer
So, they'd sacrifice facts and accuracy for their agenda? Foolish.
13 posted on 12/13/2002 3:07:40 PM PST by Forgiven_Sinner
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To: Forgiven_Sinner
Foolish?

No, Standard Operating Procedure for moral relativists. In this instance relativism and equivalency lay at the very root of their position, and becomes almost an imperative for them to take the position they do.

The "Big Lie" works, unfortunately.

14 posted on 12/13/2002 3:22:06 PM PST by ancient_geezer
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To: ancient_geezer
"From what I understand, the energy required to make such an array exceeds the expected total cummulative output from it."

This "old wives tale" keeps circulating, but I have NEVER seen any validated calculations/references proving it,and in fact have seen a couple of articles DISPROVING it. MAYBE if you assume all the solar cells are diamond cut from boule-grown crystalline silicon, this would be true--but there are far more energy-efficient ways of fabricating solar cells today.

15 posted on 12/13/2002 3:32:27 PM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: Wonder Warthog
The issue is not just one of just manufacture, it is also the cost of placing in orbit and maintaining the orbital array, not to mention developing means to transmit the energy to earth in a useful form that does not create its own environmental/health problems.

There is a long way to go to get such a technology to work, assuming(a big if)it is practically feasible to do so.

16 posted on 12/13/2002 3:39:34 PM PST by ancient_geezer
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To: ancient_geezer
"The issue is not just one of just manufacture, it is also the cost of placing in orbit and maintaining the orbital array, not to mention developing means to transmit the energy to earth in a useful form that does not create its own environmental/health problems."

The study I am referring to was not for space-based solar cells, but earth-based arrays. The study (which was in a peer-reviewed journal)did a complete energy cycle analysis assuming a complete solar array production facility running only on energy produced from solar cells, and calculated the "breeder cycle efficiency" which was positive. This was back in the mid-1980's, so the numbers would be significantly better today, given the more energy-efficient production processes not available back then.

Earth-based solar arrays are certainly practical--more expensive than nuclear, to be sure, but there are no technological barriers to building them. Compared to the amount of desert land in the United States, the fraction of such land necessary to provide the entire energy needs of the US (NOT just electrical power) is small.

17 posted on 12/13/2002 4:18:05 PM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: Wonder Warthog
Now what would such an array buy us, in regard to any Global climate change induced by human activity? As an answer to effecting changes in global climate, if we assume that it could remove all human induced CO2 contributions to the atmosphere the net effect would be a change on the order of 0.2% of the related energy budget of the earth that can be even remotely attributed to the atmosphere's CO2 content.

What impact, if any, does a big heatsink in the desert(e.g. solar energy array) have on climate patterns? What impact does the conversion of electical energy transfered to the atmospher in the form of atmospheric heat, have upon the climate, in lieu of fossil fuel burning which tend to lock up heat in the formation of CO2 & water vapor.

What would the net change to the earths heat balance, and its consequent effect on climate in going to a solar only solution?

18 posted on 12/13/2002 4:38:05 PM PST by ancient_geezer
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To: ancient_geezer
Anyone who can conclude that warming is man-made, based on a bit over 100 years of accurate unambiguous weather and climate data can be called many things.

"Scientist" ain't one of them.

19 posted on 12/13/2002 4:41:00 PM PST by Publius6961
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To: Forgiven_Sinner
the area of a solar array in outer space

That's part of it. Although it won't matter to global warming at all. Once the power is generated in space, use it in space for the big power-using industries - steel and aluminum. All in space. Our power demand on the surface will be lessened. Again, nothing to do with global warming, but it would ease the grid usage some.

20 posted on 12/13/2002 4:42:07 PM PST by RightWhale
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