Judge Moore Ain't Removing Ten Commandments (FOX NEWS)

[Dallas]

You gotta love this guy....

[andy_card]

To follow that thought to its logical, should Congress make a law that encourages murder, theft, perjury (which would then not be murder, theft or perjury)...we should then obey those laws?

Huh? This isn't a case of a controversial statute. The US Constitution forbids the establishment of religion. A judge has determined that the presence of this statue violates the Constitution. At this point, Moore has two options: he can appeal, or he can comply with the Judge's order. What he cannot do, is simply defy it, for that not only spits in the face of numerous statutes and the Article II of the Constitution, but runs against the very foundation of ordered liberty.

Or perhaps there's a moral law that takes precedence over "man's" law?

If Moore has a problem with the Constitution, there are ways he can change it to suit his views:

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress.

[archy]

I cannot imagine President Bush gaining any political capital by enforcing such a cockamamie order.

I can. He could send the B.A.T.F.

Then, when they over react and reach beyond the limits of their authority, abolish the organization entirely.

I suspect he'd gain at least a million votes in support as a result.

[pgyanke]

"As I said previously, I think that's inaccurate. Laws against murder and theft exist in places that have little or no knowledge of the Ten Commandments. They existed before the Ten Commandments were even written. Cain was punished for murdering Abel, right?"

---

Exactly! Why do the Ten Commandments have any force to them at all? Look to the author. Who is it who commands them? God.

Cain was punished by God...the same God who later codified the law. He's remarkably consistent. If you understand this action and consequence, you understand that God is serious in his instruction.

Why are the Ten Commandments commandments? 'Cause God said so.

[Frapster]

Sounds similar to what the gay activists believe, they are only free if they can force us to accept their lifestyle.

Freedom is a noble ideal - just because a segment of society who embraces immorality clamors for their 'right' to be 'free' to flaunt their immorality doesn't make them right. If their practice was even remotely moral your argument might make some sense.

[Dave S]

In God We Trust and Jefferson, Adams and Hancock were Christians not Moslems.

Jefferson of the "creator" fame was a Deist.

[ConservativeDude]

In the House of Representatives, there are profiles around the Chamber of the great law givers. It is very multicultural in teh good sense. I know Napoleon is there, and there are several others (Justinian I think) and even Confucius (I think).

Above the speakers' chair is the plaque of Moses. He is the only one who is not profiled but depicted head on, b/c he is the first law giver.

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned this already.

If what Moses brought down from Mt. Sinai has to go out of the court house in Alabama, then Moses has to go from the US House Chamber.

My prediction is that Moses and the tablets he gave will stay just right where they are.

If you have ever heard Moore speak, you would know what I mean. Moore is one of the few people I've ever encountered who truly fears no man, but deeply fears God.

[andy_card]

.exactly why we're experiencing all the moral decay throughout this country.

You really believe that all of America's problems would disappear were we to put signs in public buildings commanding people not to lust for their neighbor's ass?

[G Larry]

Easy!
Tell 'em that your human, but this is to remind you of what is right.
You don't believe in changing the rules to fit your comfort zone.

[Dallas]

I think you should wait for the case to reach conclusion, before you jump yours.

It's under appeal..

[SkyPilot]

Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
Proverbs 26:4

[andy_card]

There's a big difference between the SCOTUS, the US House of Reps and the Alabama State Judicial Building. The SCOTUS portrays many different legal authorities from history. Moore, on the other hand, has categorically refused to display anything BUT the Ten Commandments. The SCOTUS' approach is historical, Moore's is distinctly religious.

[FF578]

The link you sent me to is out of date. In the US we no longer have the state upholding commandments like no adultry.

Wrong pal.

Alabama: § 13A-6-60. Definitions.

The following definitions apply in this article:
(1) SEXUAL INTERCOURSE. Such term has its ordinary meaning and occurs upon any penetration, however slight; emmision is not required.
(2) DEVIATE SEXUAL INTERCOURSE. Any act of sexual gratification between persons not married to each other involving the sex organs of one person and the mouth or anus of another.
(3) SEXUAL CONTACT. Any touching or the sexual or other intimate parts of a person not married to the actor, done for the purpose of gratifying the sexual desire of either party.
(4) FEMALE. Any female person.
(5) MENTALLY DEFECTIVE. Such term means that a person suffers from a mental disease or defect which renders him incapable of appraising the nature of his conduct.
(6) MENTALY INCAPACITATED. Such term means that a person is rendered temporarily incapable of appriasing or controlling his conduct owing to the influence of a narcotic or intoxicating substance administered to him without his consent, or to any other incapacitating act committed upon him without his consent.
(7) PHYSICALLY HELPLESS. Such term means that a person is unconscious or for any other reason is physically unable to communicate unwillingness to an act.
(8) FORCIBLE COMPULSION. Physical force that overcomes earnest resistance or a threat, express or implied, that places a person in fear of immediate death or serious physical injury to himself or another person.

Arizona: § 13-1409. Open and notorious cohabitation or adultery; classification

A person who lives in a state of open and notorious cohabitation or adultery is guilty of a class 3 misdemeanor.

Arizona § 13-1412. Lewd and lascivious acts; classification

A person who knowingly and without force commits, in any unnatural manner, any lewd or lascivious act upon or with the body or any part or member thereof of a male or female adult, with the intent of arousing, appealing to or gratifying the lust, passion or sexual desires of either of such persons, is guilty of a class 3 misdemeanor.

Florida 798.01. Living in open adultery

Whoever lives in an open state of adultery shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083. Where either of the parties living in an open state of adultery is married, both parties so living shall be deemed to be guilty of the offense provided for in this section.

Florida 798.02. Lewd and lascivious behavior

If any man and woman, not being married to each other, lewdly and lasciviously associate and cohabit together, or if any man or woman, married or unmarried, engages in open and gross lewdness and lascivious behavior, they shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

Georgia 16-6-18. Fornication.

(a) An unmarried person commits the offense of fornication when he voluntarily has sexual intercourse with another person and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished as for a misdemeanor.

Idaho 18-6603. Fornication.

Any unmarried person who shall have sexual intercouse with an unmarried person of the opposite sex shall be deemed guilty of fornication, and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by a fine of not more than $300 or by imprisonment for not more than six months or by both such fine and imprisonment; provided, that the sentence imposed or an part of thereof may be suspended with or without probation in the discretion of the court.

Michigan § 28.567 (MCL §750.335) Lewd and lascivious cohabitation, gross lewdness and lascivious behavior; one year limitation Sec.335.

Any man or woman, not being married to each other, who shall lewdly and lasciviously associate and cohabit together, and any man or woman, married or woman, married or unmarried, who shall be guilty of open and gross lewdness and lascivious behavior, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment in the county jail not more than 1 year, or by fine of not more than $500.00. No prosecution shall be commenced under this section after 1 year from the time of committing the offense.

Minnesota 609.34. Fornication

When any man and single woman have sexual intercourse with each other, each is guilty of fornication, which is a misdemeanor.

North Carolina § 14-184. Fornication and adultery.

If any man and woman, not being married to each other, shall lewdly and lasciviously associate, bed and cohabit together, they shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor

North Carolina § 14-186. Opposite sexes occupying same bedroom at hotel for immoral purposs; falsely registered as husband and wife.

Any man and woman found occupying the same bedroom in any hotel, public inn or boardinghouse for any immoral purpose, or any man and woman falsely registering as, or otherwise representing themselves to be, husband and wife in any hotel, public inn or boardinghouse, shall be deemed guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor.

South Carolina § 16-15-60. Adultery or fornication

Any man or woman who shall be guilty of the crime of adultery or fornication shall be liable to indictment and, on conviction, shall be severally punished by a fine of not less than one hundred dollars nor more than five hundred dollars or imprisonment for not less than six months nor more than one year or by both fine and imprisonment, at the discretion of the court.

Utah 76-7-103. Adultery.

(1) A married person commits adultery when he voluntarily has sexual intercourse with a person other than his spouse.
(2) Adultery is a class B misdemeanor. Amended by Chapter 241, 1991 General Session

Utah 76-7-104. Fornication.

(1) Any unmarried person who shall voluntarily engage in sexual intercourse with another is guilty of fornication.

(2) Fornication is a class B misdemeanor. Enacted by Chapter 196, 1973 General Session

Virginia § 18.2-344 Fornication

Any person, not being married, who voluntarily shall have sexual intercourse with any other person, shall be guilty of fornication, punishable as a Class 4 misdemeanor.

Virginia § 18.2-345 Lewd and lascivious cohabitation

If any persons, not married to each other, lewdly and lasciviously associate and cohabit together, or, whether married or not, be guilty of open and gross lewdness and lasciviousness, each of them shall be guilty of a Class 3 misdemeanor; and upon a repetition of the offense, and conviction thereof, each of them shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

[E Rocc]

Your error is what I call the "statist fallacy", the idea that what government does is all that is important

Surely any believer in the Ten Commandments would maintain that they apply to individuals. Yet regardless of what governments do or don't do, the right of individuals to worship (or not worship) as they please is protected. The right to use the Judeo-Christian God's name in vain in a movie or even on TV (cable at least) is protected. And an individual may make as many "graven images" as they choose.

Go ahead and prosecute any one of these people based on these Commandments, if they are the basis of our government. Take it to the Supreme Court, and present your case citing the Commandments. It's pretty much a given that even Justice Scalia will assume his trademark smirk and begin his questioning with "precisely where in the Constitution (his emphasis) does it say ....".

-Eric

[ConservativeDude]

the House gives a very graphic portrayal of the primacy of Moses, that is induspitable. There is really very little difference here.

If Moore had a fesco installed in the halls with the other lawgivers like in the US House, but with the primary position for the Decalogue where it is, then that would pass Constitutional muster in your book?

[ppaul]

Proverbs 26:4

Great answer!

[nicmarlo]

See my post 215; The only thing constitutional being broken is the Federal Judge proclaiming that the Ten Commandment display is unconstitutional. Judge Moore is not breaking the Constitution because he is not "establishing any religion" by a display.

I would ask you the same question as in my post 215:

Tell me what religion is being established by the display of the Ten Commandments? Baptist? Mormon? Catholic? Jewish? Protestant? Pentecostal? Born-again nondemonational? Or, perhaps, one I have left out?

[Mark Felton]

I am ruled by God but I am a citizen of this government, not a subject.

Tyrants rule. Our government does not. Any authority it has is bestowed by the people.

However, our government has lurched so far towards despotism that it is impossible for so many to understand the difference between a government subordinate to the body of citizens versus one that has presumed powers upon itself.

[MattAMiller]

Because the Law as written in all western countries is based on the law of God and the Ten commandments.

Do you figure that murder and theivery were A-OK until Constantine converted the Roman empire to Christianity? Our laws have a lot more to do with the ideas a bunch of Pagan Romans and Greeks had than they do with the Ten Commandments. Did Christianity create an atmosphere where these ideas could florish? I'd argue that it did, but that doesn't mean our laws are based on the Ten Commandments.

[Dave S]

The Law is predicated on the Judeo-Christian Bible as all of the Western World has been for over 2000 years!

Make that 1700 years as Christianity was a minor religion until Constantine accepted it and made it state religion in the fourth century. The western world prior to that point was basically the Roman Empire and they worshipped multiple gods including Caeser.

[E Rocc]

In God We Trust and Jefferson, Adams and Hancock were Christians not Moslems.

Jefferson of the "creator" fame was a Deist.

Someone will eventually post the quote where Jefferson described himself as a Christian, in the only sense that Christ wanted anyone to be. They will be missing the point, that Jefferson did not believe Christ wished to be worshipped. He did not believe that Jesus Christ was a divine figure. Such a belief is commonly held as a prerequisite for Christianity, if I recall correctly.

-Eric