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Vets angry at White House over pension benefits
Scripps Howard News Service ^ | November 06, 2002 | JENNIFER SERGENT

Posted on 11/07/2002 6:17:32 AM PST by matrix

Vets angry at White House over pension benefits

By JENNIFER SERGENT
Scripps Howard News Service
November 06, 2002

- For the first time in his adult life, retired Army Master Sgt. John McNatt voted a Democratic ticket in Tuesday's elections.

The Clearwater, Fla., man said he voted against Gov. Jeb Bush as a protest against Bush's brother, who is threatening to veto defense legislation that would increase pension payments to disabled military retirees - veterans with 20 or more years of service.

"Yesterday was the first time I voted for a Democrat, ever," said McNatt, whose service-related heart condition rendered him unable to work at age 46. "I was trying to send a message to the president that his administration's stance on this is wrong."

McNatt is not the only one fighting President Bush. More than 50,000 military retirees spread the word on the Internet to vote Democratic in this year's midterm elections. And if the president follows through with the pension veto, they promise to go after him in 2004.

"I think the veterans' community will voice their displeasure at the ballot box. This is one of the most cohesive issues that I've ever seen as far as bringing veterans together," said retired Army Lt. Col. Larry Wayne, 60, of Knoxville, Tenn. Wayne suffers from Lyme disease, which he contracted during his service and has led to painful arthritis.

At issue is a provision in the 2003 defense authorization bill that would allow disabled military retirees to receive their full pension from the Department of Defense at the same time they get disability pay from the Department of Veterans Affairs.

At present, their pensions are offset dollar for dollar by the amount they receive in disability. Some retirees who have major disabilities must forfeit their entire pension for that reason. The only advantage to the offset is that the disability portion of the payments is tax-free.

Congress enacted a law forbidding "concurrent receipt" of the two payments in 1891, after it discovered that the government was mistakenly paying active-duty soldiers a retirement pension and disability at the same time.

Veterans groups say the policy is outdated and grossly unfair. Soldiers earn their pension with 20 or more years of service; they earn disability if they are injured during that service.

"They are really two different things," said Marvin Harris, a spokesman for The Retired Officers Association near Washington. "They are not overpaid. Their benefits are not generous."

Congress is attempting to respond to that concern. The House and Senate each has a bill designed to help the veterans. The White House rejects both.

In its veto recommendation to President Bush, the Office of Management and Budget said the needs of active duty soldiers and the current war effort outweighs those of veterans.

The pension costs "would necessarily require tradeoffs with war fighting capabilities," a budget office memo said.

The defense bill remains in limbo because of the veto threat. Lawmakers expect to bring up the issue during a post-election session that starts Nov. 12.

Of the nation's 25.7 million veterans, only 643,000 are military retirees whose pensions are offset by disability payments.

David Chu, undersecretary of defense for personnel and readiness, said that small niche of veterans is taken care of through a generous retirement program, which includes 50 to 75 percent of base pay, free health care and deep grocery discounts at commissaries.

"We think we've done a good job at taking care of that group of people," Chu said. "There isn't the kind of need there that would justify the expense to the taxpayer and the sacrifices others will have to make if either provision passes the Congress."

Daniel McCarthy of Albuquerque, N.M., offered a one-word answer to the claim that soldiers would suffer if military retirees got more money: "Bull."

"It's not taking money from anybody," said McCarthy, 56, a retired senior master sergeant of the Air Force who is disabled from a gunshot wound in the Vietnam War and lingering post-traumatic stress disorder.

Back in Clearwater, McNatt said he isn't going to think about the Bush administration's excuses when the presidential election comes around.

"We would be very disappointed in a president who's willing to send American men and women into battle, knowing they will sustain injuries and wounds that are going to affect them for the rest of their lives, and not having the decency to provide them with their (disability) compensation and their retirement."




TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: veterans
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I guess if you can win without them, disabled vets don't count.
1 posted on 11/07/2002 6:17:33 AM PST by matrix
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Comment #2 Removed by Moderator

To: matrix
... I guess if you can win without them, disabled vets don't count ...
Are we supposed to vote for those who benefit us personally?

I should be voting Democrat too.
3 posted on 11/07/2002 6:22:59 AM PST by Asclepius
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To: matrix
Well, I don't know much about this issue -- and I certainly don't want veterans to get the shaft. But, it seems like the White House is constrained by an existing law. I guess some people think laws should be ignored whenever convenient. But Bush feels differently.
4 posted on 11/07/2002 6:23:16 AM PST by ClearCase_guy
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To: matrix
This is a very expensive undertaking. Perhaps a phase-in is in order. Vets make a real mistake by subverting their conscience in return for dollar$. What assurances do they have the Dems will come through for them? After all, this is not exactly a new issue. I read about this fight years ago in my VFW Magazine. This has been the law of the land for many, many years.

And it is foolish to try to "punish" someone's brother for the action/inaction of a sibling...

The VFW endorsed Wellstone for Congress. They got taken apart for this action. Vets/retirees make a real mistake by tossing away their votes for an ambiguous "promise" from the Dims.

5 posted on 11/07/2002 6:25:38 AM PST by donozark
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To: matrix
I feel sorry for these people when they would throw away their votes to a Democreep just because they didn't get what they wanted. They would have been better off not voting. Do they get social security along with this? If they do they are lucky. They get their health taken care of at the VA Hospitals. They don't have to pay cemetary/burial costs because they can be buried at a Veterans cemetary. Most people who are on social security ONLY have to pay for their own perscriptions and some of their medical. Some people have to struggle by themselves alone with a small social security check and no-one is paying for their burial plot. I think they should think about what they DO HAVE before they start crying.
6 posted on 11/07/2002 6:25:47 AM PST by areafiftyone
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To: matrix
I agree with bush on this one...why would we DOUBLE-PAY someone who is a disabled verteran?...the purpose of disability pay is to make you whole, financially, not to be a huge windfall so that you can have an even higher standard of living.

Name another job in the private sector where you can continue to collect your salary/retirement AND also get disability pay at the same time.

We owe all our vets a thanks and especially our disabled vets...but DOUBLE payments make no sense, and quite frankly makes them seem petty and selfish for demanding it.
7 posted on 11/07/2002 6:27:19 AM PST by freeper12
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To: matrix
AS much as I love our veterans and respect them for defending freedom, they don't have the right to double-dip. You either get your pension from the Department of Defense or the Departement of Veterans Affairs, not both.
8 posted on 11/07/2002 6:29:21 AM PST by Thane_Banquo
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To: areafiftyone
Amen. I am a disabled vet and what i samazing is that for once, under a republican congress, we are finally being taken care of. The offset may actually be taken off the rolls, which was never done under the dems. BTW, I voted straight pub. They do something, not promise to do something.
9 posted on 11/07/2002 6:30:11 AM PST by KeyWest
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To: freeper12
It's NOT double payment - One check is for retirement, the other is to compensate for a disability (ie - lost earning potential for service related injury). Bush is on the wrong of this one...
10 posted on 11/07/2002 6:31:37 AM PST by 11th_VA
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To: matrix
Disabled vets count but they are a VERY small constituency in this country. Concurrent receipt WILL happen. This battle has been ongoing for YEARS and YEARS and I can't believe my fellow vets would consider punishing President Bush for something no other president has pushed for. Voting dim has NEVER been good for our military, vets should know that. Continue to fight for concurrent receipt and it WILL happen, don't give up and DON'T vote dim.
11 posted on 11/07/2002 6:31:49 AM PST by ChuckHam
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To: areafiftyone
They get their health taken care of at the VA Hospitals.

The VA is the best example of why the government shouldn't be in the health care business. Have you seen the type of care they offer? The burial plot you refer to is usually the finish of the Vet's treatment. Somebody who has dealt with Veteran's death benefits lately can update this, but i'll tell you that what the government pays doesn't make up for much of the cost.

12 posted on 11/07/2002 6:34:55 AM PST by Hillarys Gate Cult
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To: matrix
I don't believe veterans should be allowed to receive double payments per our current laws. While I deeply respect the veterans and show my appreciation to them at every opportunity, I think they have succumbed to the 'me too' liberal philosophy. They are owed what was promised and not the double benefits. I'm actually ashamed of those who choose to use this as a voting guide- and as a means of entitlement. Entitled to our respect and their legal benefits? Yes. Entitled to more taxpayer money because they found a self serving issue? NO!
13 posted on 11/07/2002 6:35:17 AM PST by Faithfull
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To: ClearCase_guy
Many many vets voted for slick willie in the '92 election because he promised them expanded benefits.

Once again the dems exploited this issue hoping to hurt the republican party.

Nice to know that President Bush has his priorities straight....and by the way everyone in our family is a vet! And none would ever dream of voting democrat.

14 posted on 11/07/2002 6:36:17 AM PST by OldFriend
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To: matrix
Much as I respect our vets, and don't begrudge them anything they've been given, there are two points I believe must be made.

Firstly, we're in a war-time deficit. I dont care what some veteran's interest group says -- any monies directed to them is taken away from active duty soldiers. Our enlisted soldiers are pathetically paid-- some have to live off food stamps, for heaven's sake, because the pay hasn't been increased enough in the past 20 years. Give them the money first, then the vets.

I certainly dont begrudge the veterans any benifits they derive. But there must be other priorities first. The vets certainly havent been ripped off.

15 posted on 11/07/2002 6:38:03 AM PST by jude24
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To: jude24
You raise another issue about the inequity of pay between officer and enlisted. Someday that needs to be addressed ...
16 posted on 11/07/2002 6:41:23 AM PST by 11th_VA
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To: KeyWest
I have great respect for disabled Vets or any Vets period. Jeeze my grandfather and great uncle and father are all retired vets. I just don't want them to be spiteful and voting for Dems when they know that the Dems don't do SQUAT for them. Better off not voting then giving the Dems a leg up. Spite work only backfires. Maybe I am out of the loop when it comes to this because I saw my mother suffer on Social Security ONLY and I know first hand how it was to try and help her (I paid for all her medicine and any doctors bills she had plus gave her money on a monthly basis) and her feeling like she was helpless. If she had gotten a pension too with that she would have been able to live more decently and not struggle day to day but that was her choice in life. Not everyone gets a pension along with their social security and the ones that do should be greatful. Perhaps they can get more money who knows. If any one of our seniors (be they Vets or not) is struggling the government should help them and I am 100% with them.
17 posted on 11/07/2002 6:45:20 AM PST by areafiftyone
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To: Faithfull
This is not a case of "double payments". We're talking about two separate issues that should never have been linked and was only done so to save money at the expense of veterans.

The disability payment has no relation to retirement. Retirement is earned through at least 20 years of honorable service.

Disablity is compensation for military-connected injuries paid to all such injured veterans, whether they served one day or 30 years on active duty.

The current law confiscates a retiree's retirement pay in the amount of the disability payment. This confiscation is unwarrented and should be illegal. Saving dollars on the budget is not sufficient reason to unjustly penalize those who have sacrificed so much in service to our country!

FMCDH
18 posted on 11/07/2002 6:46:01 AM PST by MadPenguin
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To: freeper12
Not private sector, but all federal employees(except military) can draw retirement and disability!
19 posted on 11/07/2002 6:53:52 AM PST by hurly
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To: Thane_Banquo
"Retire in early to late forties then work to normal retirement age for private industry and collect from military, social security, and a full retirement equal to someone who worked forty plus years in private life.

Private industry is CUTTING benefits to the rest of us (Big Time!).

Those 'reduced' benefits don't sound so bad after all.

Notes:
A VA rep once tried to get me to apply for disability for fungus, and I'm not sure about "service related heart problems".
If lingering PTSD is cause for benefits there are a whole lot of us who got told there was no such thing who should be asking for compensation. And, remember that class action suit over Agent Orange?
Anybody see a dime out of that one?.
Aside from avoiding the late seventies - eighties politically correct military & self serving doo-doo that brought us up to black berets and ship-board maternity wards; the most financially damaging decision I ever made was getting out & staying out.
20 posted on 11/07/2002 6:54:21 AM PST by norton
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