TWA Flight 800 - Ray Lahr's Letter To Senator Rudman

ARAP ^

[Asmodeus]

http://twa800.com/news/pbs-10-31-02.htm
Associated Retired Aviation Professionals
Post Office Box 90, Clements, Maryland 20624 USA

PBS News Hour
October 31, 2002

This evening former Senator Warren Rudmann was interviewed on homeland defense. He mentioned Jim Kallstrom and stated that he was in charge of the "TWA 800 "Shoot Down" investigation."

P.S. As the News Hour ended, they stated that Rudmann didn't mean to use the phrase "Shoot Down".

To view the video of the show, go to:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/video/index.html# and search for the interview on "Securing the Homeland" dated October 31, 2002.

______________________________

Captain Ray Lahr (ret.)

October 31, 2002

The Honorable Warren B. Rudman Co-Chairman U. S. Commission on National Security

Dear Senator Rudman:

I was one of the millions who watched your interview on PBS this evening and I applaud your work on behalf of this nation. I served in the war ahead of you – I was a Navy pilot in World War II and then spent my career as a pilot for United Airlines. I note that you served with distinction in Korea. I would like to mention two other Navy pilots, Commander William 'Bill' Donaldson and Major Fred 'Fritz' Meyer, who served in the war behind you, namely Viet Nam (Fritz later joined the National Guard which explains the Major).

During your interview you mentioned the shoot-down of TWA800. It was shot down, as you know. Fritz was in a helicopter with Captain Bauer and they were making a practice ILS approach at the Suffolk airport waiting for it to get dark so that they could practice night refueling. They were on short final with Captain Bauer flying and Fritz handling the radios and lookout. The tower called and said there was a Cessna entering the traffic pattern for their runway. Fritz was leaning forward in the cockpit trying to pick up the Cessna when he saw a missile arc across the sky. It disappeared momentarily and then there were at least two bright-white military ordinance explosions. Then followed the huge fuel explosion and fireball. All of the debris fell downward out of the fireball.

Fritz immediately cleared from the tower and flew to the accident site. They were the first on the scene and they stayed out there looking for survivors until they ran low on fuel. Fritz and I have become friends and I can provide to you a video tape and an 8 page transcript of his description of the accident. Or you may call him at (631) 495 3999 or email him at fmeyer8775@ aol. com.

Would you believe that the FBI interviewed 750 eyewitnesses, yet not a single one was allowed to testify at the accident investigation hearing? Commander Donaldson retired from the Navy with just about every rating a pilot can get including accident investigation. Bill just couldn't accept the misinformation appearing in the media. He launched his own investigation and he formed an Association of Retired Aviation Professionals to help. No less a person than Admiral Thomas Moorer, former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, joined Bill's cause. Admiral Moorer even made a personal appeal to Congress to reopen the investigation. Bill devoted the last years of his life trying to present the truth to the public. He went into Walter Reed hospital with a back problem. They operated on his brain and we lost a wonderful patriot. However, Bill's research was put onto a website and it is being continued by his brother, Bob Donaldson. Please go to www. TWA800. com and you will find an unbelievable amount of evidence supporting the shoot-down.

My personal involvement started with the FAA radar tapes which showed a missile approaching TWA800 prior to the explosion. The controllers immediately reported what they had seen and the word went right to the top. A copy of the tape reached my fellow pilot, Captain Richard Russell, and he showed it to me. When word got out on the internet, the FBI threatened Captain Russell and then came to his house and confiscated a tape. Pierre Salinger was ridiculed for releasing the same information. In order to discredit the eyewitnesses, the CIA proposed that after the nose was blown off of TWA800, the aircraft continued to fly and climb 3200 feet trailing flames. This was supposed to be the rising bright streak seen by the eyewitnesses (never mind that the eyewitnesses saw the streak rising from the surface, not from a point 13,800 feet in the sky). The CIA prepared a video animation of this zoom-climb and James Kallstrom presented it on national TV when he announced that the FBI was withdrawing from the investigation. Well, such a nose-less zoom-climb is aerodynamically impossible, and Boeing issued a statement the following day denying any knowledge of the data and conclusions used for the CIA animation.

A month later, the NTSB presented a similar video animation at the public hearing. However, the NTSB also included a table of data in its report that was provided by Boeing. Using that data, I calculated that when the nose was blown off, the aircraft immediately pitched up and stalled. The most it could have climbed is about 200 feet. This is confirmed by the eyewitnesses who saw the debris fall downward out of the fireball. I went to the NTSB hearing on August 22, 2000, and asked the NTSB author of the zoom-climb, Dennis Crider, and his supervisor, Bernard Loeb, how they had calculated the zoom-climb. They wouldn't give me an answer. I wrote to Jim Hall, chairman of the NTSB, and asked for the calculations. We exchanged several letters but still no answer. Then I submitted Freedom of Information Act requests to the CIA and the NTSB. The CIA responded that it had used data and conclusions provided by the NTSB. The NTSB responded that it couldn't release the information because it was proprietary to Boeing. But Boeing had already denied knowledge of the data and conclusions. Now I am preparing a lawsuit to obtain the information.

I mention all of this because this secrecy on the part of our government is working at cross-purposes with your efforts to alert the public to the threats against us. Who knows, if we had faced up to TWA800, we might have averted 9-11. Whenever possible, the government clamps a lid on terrorist actions in an effort to convince the public that the terrorists are not really hurting us. On the other hand, groups like your Hart-Rudman Commission are trying to raise public concern so that we will take preventive action. I guess the part that bothers me the most is that they are destroying my trust in my government. Before he died, I discussed with Bill Donaldson why he was putting so much effort into this cause. His answer was, "Nobody is going to screw around with my constitution". Well, I guess there are a few of us odd-balls out here who are willing to fight to get the truth out of our government.

Sincerely,

Ray Lahr

______________________________

[Asmodeus]

Compare Ray Lahr's understanding of the the sequence of events in paragraph #2 above with the following:

TWA 800 - The Sequential Timeline vs. The Missile(s) Theories

[onedoug]

ISLAMISM UNTIL DOMONSTRATED OTHERWISE

[dcwusmc]

Thanks for this post.

[eno_]

if we had faced up to TWA800, we might have averted 9-11

Which is why, if you ever meet James Kallstrom, it is your duty to spit in his face. He has the nerve to "advise" Governor Pataki on terror. He will "advise" us all into a Smallpox cataclysm given his track record.

[Hatteras]

Respectfully, in 25 words or less, based on the link you provided, what is the theory suggested, if not a shootdown?

[mil-vet]

I sure hope Ray makes some progress! It is obvious to the most casual observer (so many of whom were not allowed to testify) that this WAS a shoot-down and, most logically, islamic!

[leprechaun9]

It was rather strange that an Admiral was flown in from Washington on the day after the TWA800 tragedy and he took over all the press conferences.

I have never seen a high ranking military officer, of any service, do press conferences immediately after a tragedy, that might involve the military.

Kallstrom took over later, but the immediate Coast Guard chain of Command that were conducting the Rescue & Search efforts were completely shunned!

I believe the timing with respect to the Olympics and the visiting heads of state, necessitated a complete slid being placed on the truth.

I am reminded of the story that went around after the JFK assination: The question was asked, what happened to the elephant that walked into the Dallas Police Station; the answer was NOTHING, THEY DIDN'T SEE HIM!

[FormerLurker]

C'mon Asmodeus, we all know that your timeline has been proven physically impossible. If necessary, I'll find the links to the thread where that was proven to be the case.

[Asmodeus]

Most assumed a "shootdown" at the outset too (including James Kallstrom) because of the initial reports of a fiery streak followed immediately by a huge fireball. However, a U.S. satellite detected that Massive Fireball explosion about a mile above the surface, NOT at 13,800 feet where the Initial Event took place at 8:31:12. In short, the fiery events observed by the witnesses took place much later and much lower in the sky than initially assumed. The timeline and location of the major events of the TWA 800 disaster was approximately as follows:

8:31:11 Intact and climbing 747 approaches 13,800 feet.

8:31:12 Initiating Event at 13,800 feet followed immediately by the commencement of the decapitation process.

8:31:43-8:31:47 Streak of light appears.

8:31:47 Explosion of Massive Fireball at 5500-7500 feet.

8:31:55-8:31:57 Splashdown of the Massive Fireball flames.
Source - The "Missile Witnesses" Myth.

None of the "shootdown" websites include a sequential timeline todate although their authors have had well over six years to try to put one together that would support the "shootdown" notion. Simply put, it can't be done. However, on 4 September 2002, Swordmaker tried his best here in FreeRepublic and his "shootdown" sequential timeline - and how it conflicts with your own Star "shootdown" witnesses' reports - can be reviewed in its entirety by clicking here.

[Asmodeus]

See #9 above.

[ALOHA RONNIE]

NEVER FORGET

...Any takers...?

...Again, for the millionth time...

...can someone please explain WHY...

...TWA Flight 800 just HAD to go down into the Atlantic...

...the very night before First Lady HILLARY RODHAM's..

...own White House Chief of Security CRAIG LIVINGSTONE...

...was going to name her, or protect her by "Pleading the 5th" before Congress on National TV as the one who hired him to get her those FBI Files on Republicans in Congress..?

...And which event did you happen to see 24 hour a day TV Coverage the next day of...

...and which event joined TWA FLIGHT 800 at the bottom of the Atlantic...?

NEVER FORGET

[onedoug]

I don't know what happened. But the government's explanation is a little too pat on the heels of other Islamist business (such as the LAX shootings last July 4, the recent Muhammed/Malvo sniper and very likely OKC). I also suspect the EgyptAir incident, the SwissAir (UN Express) crash a few years ago and likely now a lot of other Islamist sh__ our government won't cop to for whatever weird reason. And I'm still not settled with AA 587. Remarkable coincidence, maybe. But Airbus is still balking.

The points in your post are plausible, but yet don't demonstrate. And as I said in my earlier post: Islamism until demonstrated otherwise. The prime suspect in any terror related incident unsolved...or, un-said.

[FormerLurker]

8:31:43-8:31:47 Streak of light appears

Bzzt. That is pure conjecture on your part, and has nothing in common with what was actually reported that day. The streak of light seen by Major Meyer was BEFORE the initiating EVENTS at 8:31:10 - 8:31:15. As I said, I could just post the links to that info if was inclined to dig them up. This is just a rehash of what had already been discussed over a period of weeks on that other thread. I for one don't want to spend an inordinate amount of time on this subject, it's a waste of effort. Those true believers in the government line will never change their mind no matter what facts are presented. Those who persist in presenting knowingly false info will continue to do so, over, and over, and over....

And those who know what the available facts are concerning this will just keep trying to present those facts. It gets old after awhile.

[Hatteras]

So, again, you're suggesting that the evidence does not, in fact, point to a missle shootdown but it points to a........?

center fuel tank?
on-board explosion (bomb)?
mid-air meteor hit?
structural failure?

Just genuinely curious.

[MHGinTN]

It would come as no surprise to many Freepers that this tragedy was an Islamicist terrorist act. But consider whose watch this occurred under! The sinkEmperor had no desire to have it known that his declaration of war on terrorism --which came at a time when our nation was totally unprepared to face the threat and the deviant-in-chief had done NOTHING to prepare this nation-- had resulted in our people taking yet another hit from Islamism (WTC bombing was rpior to TWA 800, if memory serves!) and the deviant-in-chief still trying to forward his appeasement agenda, an agenda which HIS lackies continue to push even to this day!

Count for yourself the list of terrorist acts committed against US citizens during the deviant's administration ... then ask yourself why Irksome Bowels and other appeaseNIKs and postponeNIKS are trying to regain control over this nation! The despotic democrat party is thoroughly corrupted by clintonism, and irrevocably, IMHO. Vote the RATS out, for the salvation of this once great Republic.

[onedoug]

Vote the RATS out, for the salvation of this once great Republic.

Agree 100%. But I also want Republican feet held to the fire.

One still has to wonder what the hell is going on in the Justice Dept.

[MHGinTN]

Count me with you all the way on that venture. We the Republican voters, not the despotic democrats, must hold the pubby feet to the fire! They work for US. Let us constantly remind them of that immutable fact.

[eno_]

Which satellite? And why is the supposed satellite imagry any more trustable than the CIA animation? What are the sources and provenance. By the way, a sat orbits are fairly high: Iridium, a LEO sat, is about 250-300 miles up. You are suggesting this sat measured a height difference of about 2 miles. From how far? Geostationary? MEO? LEO? Less than 1% MOE? Maybe 0.1 or 0.01? Was it meant to measure altitudes? If so how?

You are constructing a complex web around a simple case: Is it more likely that an unprecendented fault caused a bizzare accident, as the government claims, or did terrorists shoot down a passenger plane - a very plausible and possible event with numerous verified instances of missile shoot-downs of passenger planes. Your timelines hang on unreliable sources. You attempt to discredit dozens to hundreds of witnesses through claims that could come from another planet, specifically Uranus.

And, lastly, are you Elmer Barr (eb44) a previously banned and discredited spammer and shill?

Got anything that isn't eb44 warmed over? If not, go away. Your postings are spam and abuse.

[verity]

. He went into Walter Reed hospital with a back problem. They operated on his brain and we lost a wonderful patriot.

Huh?

[Asmodeus]

"The streak of light seen by Major Meyer was BEFORE the initiating EVENTS at 8:31:10 - 8:31:15."

Major Meyer's presentation to the Granada Forum is by far the most detailed witness report to be found anywhere and includes his very specific estimates of the elapsed time between each of the fiery events he observed from which it is clear his elapsed time between the first "ordnance" explosion and the Massive Fireball explosion was only 3-4 seconds.

What was the altitude of the Massive Fireball explosion?

The CIA states: "When it reached an altitude of about 1 mile - 42 seconds after the initial onboard explosion - the aircraft's left wing separated from the fuselage, releasing the unburned fuel in the left wing's fuel tanks. The fuel's subsequent ignition and burning produced a dramatic fireball visible to eyewitnesses more than 40 miles away, and detected by an infrared sensor aboard the US Defense Support Program (DSP) missile warning satellite."

Swordmaker states in his sequential timeline that the Massive Fireball explosion took place at 7000 feet.

In either case, Major Meyer could not possibly have seen a "shootdown" of the 747 at 13,800 feet only 3-4 seconds before he saw the explosion of the Massive Fireball.