McVeigh Defense Investigator Questions Senator's Probe

CNSNEWS.com ^ | 10/30/02 | Jeff Johnson

[kattracks]

Capitol Hill (CNSNews.com) - An investigator who assisted in the appeal of Timothy McVeigh's conviction for the Oklahoma City bombing, disputes claims by a former television reporter that former members of the Iraqi military were involved in the 1995 attack.

Investigator Cate McCauley says the claims made by Jayna Davis, the former TV reporter, are "easily refutable."

Sen. Arlen Specter (R-Pa.) met Oct. 10 with Davis, a former investigative reporter for an Oklahoma City television station, about an alleged connection between McVeigh and foreign terrorists. Specter told Davis her claim "warrants an inquiry."

"We will pursue it," Specter said, after hearing a one-hour presentation from Davis.

"We will send it over to the FBI and we will continue to look at it," he told Davis during the meeting, which was broadcast live on the Michael Smerconish talk show on "1210 The Big Talker," WPHT radio in Philadelphia.

As CNSNews.com previously reported, Davis presented Specter with 22 notarized statements from Oklahoma residents who have identified eight Middle Eastern men, allegedly former Iraqi soldiers, who the witnesses claim collaborated with Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols in the bombing plot.

But McCauley, a licensed private investigator who was appointed by the U.S. District Court for the District of Colorado to assist with McVeigh's appeal, had harsh criticism for Davis' claims.

"This is perhaps the worst case of misinformation and pandering I have ever seen in this case," McCauley said of Davis' meeting with Specter. "Davis' theories were dismissed long ago for very good reasons."

McCauley said she is speaking out because Davis' contact with Specter means that taxpayers' money is now being "wasted" to re-investigate the allegations. She also noted that a gag order on everyone involved with the investigation was lifted after McVeigh's 2001 execution, so she is free to discuss details that she could not disclose in the past.

The McVeigh appellate team spent months pouring over all of the case files, reports and memoranda from the original investigation prior to filing its appeal in March of 2000. That process included reviewing 42,000 leads phoned in to the toll-free tip line set up just after the bombing, and the 20,000-plus FBI "302s," lead sheets generated from those tips.

Who Was John Doe #2?

"Seven of those witnesses place Hussain Al-Hussaini in the company of Timothy McVeigh, riding in the Ryder truck, the morning of the bombing, stepping out of that truck at ground zero, directly in front of the federal building moments before the massive fertilizer bomb exploded and speeding away from downtown in a brown Chevrolet pickup that matched the FBI's all points bulletin for foreign suspects that morning," Davis told Specter during their Oct. 10 meeting.

But McCauley told CNSNews.com the trial court and the FBI heard from those witnesses, as well.

"There are witnesses who I'm aware of on that list, who changed their testimony over time or, in the case of [a particular witness], were terribly traumatized and confused by the bombing," McCauley said. "If you go through the list of these witnesses, you will find things that have changed, or you will find people that are saying they had seen McVeigh when McVeigh was hundreds of miles away."

Mike Moroz, who claimed he had seen Al-Hussaini with McVeigh in the infamous Ryder truck used in the bombing, was one of the witnesses cited by Davis.

"In an affidavit, Mike Moroz, a worker at Johnny's Tire Service, a few blocks from the Murrah Building, said that at about 8:30 a.m. on April 19, the day of the bombing, McVeigh pulled up in his Ryder truck and asked for directions," the LA Weekly reported in a Sept. 28, 2001 story on Davis. "He insisted there was another man sitting in the truck cab. Moroz told Davis he had picked McVeigh out of a live FBI lineup. He also said Al-Hussaini, as shown in one of KFOR's surveillance photos, could have been the man he saw."

But, according to FBI records, McCauley claims Moroz did not positively identify McVeigh.

"The FBI questioned Moroz immediately after the bombing. He was one of four people asked to participate in a live line-up. Moroz picked two men, one of which was McVeigh," she explained. "In the world of eyewitness identification, that would be considered a miss."

Davis acknowledged that Moroz identified two people from the line-up, but said the FBI "302" from the session indicated that he "leaned strongly" toward the "real McVeigh." The line-up, Davis alleged, was comprised of McVeigh and three soldiers from a nearby Army fort, whose appearance was almost identical to McVeigh's.

McCauley said the person Davis claimed was Al-Hussaini was later identified as Todd Bunting, an Army private who was at the Ryder rental office almost exactly 24 hours after McVeigh rented the truck used in the bombing. His physical appearance - including a distinctive tattoo on his arm - is identical to the description and sketch of John Doe #2.

FBI Refusal to Accept Witness Affidavits

Davis claimed she tried to surrender the 22 witness statements and corroborating documentation she uncovered to the FBI in 1997, but requested that agents sign a notarized receipt for the evidence. She said, after consulting with "the legal department," they refused to accept the documents.

McCauley said that's not the entire story.

"There's something missing from the story about why the FBI refused [Davis'] information," she said. "When Ms. Davis walked off her job at KFOR in March 1997 she took her materials. The station sued her in order to retrieve what they considered their property."

FBI Agent Dan Vogel told the LA Weekly in a Sept. 28, 2001, interview that the litigation made agents wary of accepting the documents.

"I was told we gave the affidavits back to her because there was some question of ownership," he said, "whether she or KFOR had legal rights to the material."

In an Oct 29, 2002, letter to Specter, Davis stated that "I interviewed the witnesses and drafted the summary reports on my own time with my personal resources and computer equipment ... ownership of the documents the FBI refused to receive from me in 1997 was never in dispute before the court. Once again, I compiled the dossier after leaving the station."

'She's Standing on the Graves of Thousands'

"What Ms. Davis has been running around with for the past number of years, I think, is just not complete. It's factually incorrect," McCauley charged. "I think that there are many good answers to these questions and I think she's whipping up a frenzy for whatever reason, I don't know. But, I don't like the fact that she's standing on the graves of thousands of people."

McCauley said that, while she knows Davis' information is incorrect, she does not question the former reporter's motives.

"She's like a lot of people who got attached to a very small package of information and has convinced herself that this is right and this is just," McCauley speculated. "But they simply don't have all the information or, it seems, the discipline necessary to go through investigative material.

"You can't cling to things you want," McCauley concluded, "and ignore the things you don't like."

Davis told CNSNews.com that she stands by the information she has collected and the witnesses she has interviewed.

"I think that there's other evidence that refutes what Cate McCauley is putting forth," Davis said. "Her credentials are highly suspect. She worked very long for the Charles Key investigation."

McCauley was the executive director of an investigation lead by Oklahoma State Rep. Charles Key from 1997 to 1999.

"It became apparent that [members of Key's committee] refused to look at certain evidence that didn't fit their theories," McCauley explained. "In March 1999, I resigned from Key's committee because they were going to publish falsehoods, which I flatly refused to take part in."

Sen. Specter's office did not return calls seeking information about the status of his requests to the FBI.

E-mail a news tip to Jeff Johnson.

Send a Letter to the Editor about this article.

[TXnMA]

In #34: Anybody want to take a guess at who the "defense investigator" in question was?

...and, finally...

In #40: It appears that the famous "X" in the Stephen Jones book is Roger Charles.

Honway, you're my kinda guy! You raise a question in your own mind, and then keep digging until you come up with a reasonable answer.

I didn't suspect Cate McCauley, because, AFAIK, she only worked with S. Jones' successors -- on McVeigh's appeal (after he was sentenced, of course...).

However, I hadn't known that Roger Charles apparently went directly from the Jones team to OKBIC. And, no, I never met the man... (All my OKBIC work was done -- via the internet -- from MA, and the only time I ever visited OKC was after R. Charles' departure from the OKBIC team.)

[Fred Mertz]

I never realized that Admiral Boorda was Jewish.

http://www.jewishsailors.com/profiles/boorda/

[honway]

Thanks for the link. There is some inaccurate information in the bio.

uncovered evidence that he wore two unearned combat ribbons for his participation in Vietnam.

There was never a question about the fact that Admiral Boorda earned all his ribbons. Roger Carles and Hackworth maintained that Admiral Boorda did not earn the "V" device on two ribbons because his service was on a U.S. warship conducting combat operations in unfriendly waters off the coast of Vietnam.

The Chief of Naval Operations during the time of service in question, Admiral Elmo Zumwalt, maintains Admiral Boorda did earn the "V" devices. I'll take the Admiral's word over these two hacks any day. In addition, suggesting that sailors serving their country on a warship conducting combat operations in unfriendly waters did not demonstrate sufficient valor to earn the "V" device does not hold water, in my opinion.

[honway]

Thank you for your important contributions to the OKC bombing investigation, past and present.

Your first hand experiences are invaluable for those of us trying to make sense of these new developments.

[js1138]

What kind of legal defense goes out of its way to prove it's client's guilt??????

[Nancie Drew]

Thanks, Fred, for flagging me and asking for my input. PhilDragoo’s comment #15 is exactly what happened in this article by Jeff Johnson. Phil says, “The article is lazy journalism, putting a microphone in front of a homeless person at a bus stop who says she’s Catherine the Great.” I just loved that comment from Phil. This Internet news service has admitted they don’t have the funds or time to investigate McCauley and her claims. But they are still going to let McCauley have her say. That is absolutely ridiculous. Jayna had been vetted for months by Wall Street Journal, L.A. Weekly, and other publications. This organization did not vet McCauley at all. They did not seem to even do a cursory search on the Internet, because that would have been very interesting and revealing.

Jayna has given a rebuttal to CNSNEWS on every point that McCauley has made. They may allow a portion of Jayna’s rebuttals to get some exposure. We’ll see.

CitizenK, you also had some very insightful observations!

I do not know a lot about McCauley. I became suspicious of McCauley right after she came to Oklahoma City. A relative of mine lives in Colorado and heads up an organization that puts out a newspaper. This paper had investigated a disinformation agent and my cousin was very concerned that McCauley fit the profile. She had heard Charles Key and McCauley when they came to Colorado. She had talked to McCauley and asked a few questions about the Middle Eastern connection and how McCauley ended up coming to Oklahoma City. McCauley’s answers raised a lot of red flags to my relative. So, I became very wary of McCauley. One thing that always caused us to take notice of people is how did they stand on the Middle Eastern connection to Oklahoma City. If they would dismiss it out of hand without even looking at the information, that raised a red flag. The time I talked to McCauley in person, I asked her about the Middle Eastern connection. She seemed to be dismissive about the whole thing to me.

An Internet search showed an interview that McCauley did for a Boston radio station called the connection. Twenty-eight minutes into the program she says the following, “Even after the inspector general’s report an FBI agent went before an Oklahoma County Grand Jury and continued to give wrong information.” She would be referring to John Hersley because he was the agent dispatched to go before the Grand Jury. Boy, she has sure changed her tune now. I have mine own ideas on why she would make this comment back in 2001 but now seems to change her tune. At this point, I am trying to be cautious about what I say publicly about McCauley. Jayna is quite capable of defending herself and hopefully, her answers will be released today or at least by Monday.

An Associated Press story that was picked up by Southcoast Today quotes McCauley as saying. “Cate McCauley, who worked on the McVeigh defense team and also witnessed the execution, then told (Bill) McVeigh: 'I’d like to say you have a very brave son, and he’s free.'”

I would never use the word brave to describe a mass murderer.

In this thread, several investigators have been mentioned, J.D. Cash, Roger Charles, Cate McCauley who all seemed to work together according to some of the comments made on this thread. I personally would not work with any of them. I never felt that any of their motives were to advance the truth. Honway, you seem to think that Roger Charles was the one that burned Stephen Jones. I had always wondered if it was J.D. Cash.

The Freepers have been great to encourage Jayna! She is very appreciative!

My grandson is waking up so I better post this and take care of him. Someone that knows how to post this to the entire bump list, feel free to do so.

[honway]

Honway, you seem to think that Roger Charles was the one that burned Stephen Jones. I had always wondered if it was J.D. Cash

I believe at his core, Stephen Jones is a man of integrity. In his book "Others Unknown"p.299,300, Jones describes a defense investigator's interaction with J.D. Cash in publicizing the "McVeigh confession was a hoax" story. The way I read it, Jones seems to be clear in his book that J.D. Cash and "X" are two different people. If they are the same person, IMO Jones deceived his readers and I do not believe Jones would do that.

[Nancie Drew]

Your right on that, Honway. I had forgotten about that comment that he had made in his book. It has been a long time since I had revisited the J.D. Cash episode.

[honway]

http://www.s-t.com/daily/06-01/06-12-01/a01ho013.htm

Bill McVeigh says he's "all right" after execution

Cate McCauley, who worked on the McVeigh defense team and also witnessed the execution, then told McVeigh: "I'd like to say you have a very brave son, and he's free."

-------------------------------------------------

Tim McVeigh participated in the murder of 168 innocent people, including children.
I think Ms. McCauley owes us an explanation of what the word "brave" means as well as the word "free" in this context.

[thinden]

appreciate your input here.

[thinden]

seems roger charles was about as much an investigator as falmy malik was a medical examiner.

[Fred Mertz]

Roger Charles is a USNA graduate, while Admiral Boorda was commissioned through OCS.

[TXnMA]

Big

Thank you! BTTT

for a great Must-Read comment by Nancie Drew!

[TXnMA]

seems roger charles was about as much an investigator as falmy malik was a medical examiner.

You don't want to get me going on Fahmy Malik and the Saline County mess!

I'm working (from time-to-time) on a lengthy story of how I changed from non-political to deeply involved in the OKC Bombing investigation. Suffice it to say that all it began when I visited Benton, Arkansas, and my host said, "Right over yonder are some train tracks...".

God bless Linda Ives and Jean Duffey!!!

[PhilDragoo]

Regarding Alex McCauley, I could not enter the website found on a search on him:

The Man Who Didn't Exist - Oklahoma City Bombing and The Politics ...
... David Hall of KPOC-TV uncovered information that McVeigh had met with local ATF agent Alex McCauley in a McDonalds the night before the bombing. ...
www.mindprism.com/__ocbpt/chpt2b.html
- 101k - Cached - Similar pages

You are not authorized to view this page
You might not have permission to view this directory or page using the credentials you supplied.
If you believe you should be able to view this directory or page, please try to contact the Web site by using any e-mail address or phone number that may be listed on the www.mindprism.com home page.

[PhilDragoo]

Check this out:

Topic: OKC Bombing
We need your help

OKBIC
08/14/98 Cate McCauley OKBIC Executive Director

We Need Your Help

Many of our loyal readers have written or called to ask how they can help us. Here's the perfect way to assist the OK Bombing Investigation.

As you may know, the OKBIC is preparing to take this case to Congress. Members of our committee were in Washington DC this past May lobbying members of Congress for public hearings. There are two areas of concern we plan to pursue: 1) federal building safety and; 2) the Judiciary Committee, which oversees the U.S. Justice Dept.

We have a Petition for Congress that needs as many signatures as possible, from every corner of our country (But we also welcome our foreign readers to join in). We need to demonstrate that the American people do care about what happened here in Oklahoma City. So many lingering unanswered questions is simply unacceptable.

Please print out a copy of our Petition and send it to your friends and family. If we receive even one page of signatures each from the thousands of readers who check into this site each month, it will help us tremendously.

Once you have the Petitions signed, mail them back to us and we will include them in our Congressional Report.

Need some inspiration? Sometimes others say it best. Please read our editorials on ``Why We Should Care?" ``Ambrose Evans-Pritchard's Farewell & Warning to America" and ``It's All Too Familiar."

And finally, I wish to extend my gratitude to everyone for your kind words of support. You really do help us by letting us know you care. There are many victims' families here who are also touched by your concern. We all appreciate anything you can do to support our efforts.

Sincerely,
Cate McCauley
OKBIC Executive Director

The above appears in the Free Republic archive at:

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a529277.htm

"Help us give this coverup an appearance of broad support."

[TXnMA]

Anyone know if this Cate McCauley is credible?

Is anyone more familiar with this Cate McCauley's involvement in the case? Unfortunately I don't have a lot of time to track some of this stuff down, but my cursory search makes me wonder about her credibility. Who is more credible here, McCauley or Davis?

I promised to share my personal experience with Cate McCauley while she was OKBIC's Executive Director. Here's my take (as viewed fom a couple of thousand miles away in Massachusetts):

---

Cate McCauley is still a mystery to me (and to Charles Key, as well). When Cate was OKBIC Executive director, she and I hit it off quite well. In fact.I'd say we developed a cordial and enjoyable working relationship (via e-mail and phone). Cate has [had?] a devastating, sarcastic sense of humor, and we shared many an e-mail laugh. (Especially about the antics of the "Fumbling Bums of Infamy".) I felt we had developed a warm friendship to complement our excellent working relationship. (After she had dinner with my wife and me on one of her trips home to Providence, she gave us both big hugs...)

But, then she developed a mail correspondence with Timothy McVeigh, and began "using her womanly wiles" (her term) on him. (She laughingly referred to him as "just another horny 20-year-old kid".) Then, shortly after she began corresponding with Mc Veigh, she began refering to him as, "Timmy". Soon it was, "Timmy this..." and "Timmy says..." -- and, then she suddenly stopped answering my e-mails.

That was along about the time of the OKC tornado, so, after I got no response to several e-mails showing increasing levels of concern for her welfare, I finally called her on the phone. She was anything but her usual, bubbly self, and she let me know she was OK -- and that she didn't need anyone to be concerned for her well-being, thank you. (I thought that, perhaps, she had misinterpreted my grandfatherly concern -- so I backed off on communication, as well...)

A few weeks later, Charles flew me to OKC to measure the track width on the Caterpillar the workers parked in the crater, (for use as a photogrammetry scale), to meet the Committee members, and to see the MFB site. Cate was hardly civil -- and she barely condescended to shake my hand. Then I noticed she was treating everyone else -- even Charles -- the same way.

One experience of that trip still astounds me: Charles and I were in the temporary Bombing Museum, going over the full set of drawings of the Murrah Building, when Cate walked in the door. She stopped and glared at us, as if to say, "What are you two men doing here in my private data repository?" And I swear i thought she was going to turn right around and leave -- which she soon did. Most odd behavior from one who was supposedly a committed member of our team...

Shortly thereafter, she resigned.

Cate completely "flipped"! Her personality changed, her allegiances reversed, and she bailed out.

She abandoned OKBIC just as pressure was building for us to get the Final Report published -- leaving OKBIC demoralized and with nothing but a mass of (somewhat organized) information from which to construct a report. IMHO, it was only Charles Key's personal integrity and hunger for the truth that kept the whole project from collapsing... (I was fortunate: I had held all my information and the drafts of my analytical chapter "close to my chest" -- and distributed over several electronic storage media locations.)

OKBIC still has much of McCauley's work product (writing) from when she was the primary author of the Report. Believe me, her words then are diametrically opposed to her words now (in the above article). [See Phil Dragoo's #56 for an excellent "before" example...]

Next thing I heard of Cate, she was working for McVeigh's defense team, and denouncing us as a bunch of conspiracy wackos. I understand that she was even one of the (six?) people McVeigh asked to be personal witnesses of his execution -- but I don't know whether she attended or not... (NOTE: based on FR inputs, I now understand that she did attend as McVeigh's invited witness.)

Very, very strange -- not only a complete reversal of beliefs and allegiance, but an obvious radical shift in personality. Quite a shame, really, because she was a bright, witty, charming, conservative professional -- before McVeigh. To be truthful, I liked Cate back then. IMHO, she would have made a delightful FReeper...

Charles assures me that I had nothing to do with her crackup -- that she just turned against everyone and everything she had previously embraced with great warmth and enthusiasm. Sad, indeed...

I'm still mystified -- and can't help but wonder if Cate developed a romantic attachment to "Timmy" McVeigh.

(It wasn't until folks here on FR started questioning her overall intentions and integrity that I began to seriously consider that there might possibly be another explanation for her behavior...)

So...

Who is more credible here, McCauley or Davis?

One word: "Davis".

TXnMA (No Longer!!!)

[Nancie Drew]

Thanks for your insight!

[honway]

Thanks for your perspective. The unique information you are able to provide to this enigma of Davis vs. McCauley is an example of what makes this forum so valuable to those trying to find the truth about the OKC bombing.

In the few meetings McVeigh had with one of his first attorneys, Susan Otto, McVeigh passed information to her sufficient for her to tell Jones that once he knew what she knew, he would "never think of the United States of America in the same way."

It is possible that McVeigh shared some of the same information with McCauley. McCauley described McVeigh as a brave man, was that romantic infatuation, plain stupidity,admiration for the manner in which he met his death, or did McVeigh and the government permit McCauley a glance similiar to one provided Susan Otto?

[TXnMA]

, was that romantic infatuation, plain stupidity, admiration for the manner in which he met his death, or did McVeigh and the government permit McCauley a glance similiar to one provided Susan Otto?

As I said, my assumption has always been that it was the first: romantic infatuation.

After all my years of investigation, I assumed that Susan Otto was referring to Clinton/Reno's de facto conversion of the FBI from the FB of Investigation into the FB of Prosecution and/or the FB of Prevarication. Or worse, as in the cases of Waco and Ruby Ridge, into the FB of Execution.