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To: berned; *Catholic_list; .45MAN; AKA Elena; al_c; american colleen; Antoninus; aposiopetic; ...
Complete vindication, confirmation and corroboration of the Fundamentalist teachings on the subject, replete with slam-dunk historical, physical evidence.

1) Prove it refers to the historical Jesus,

2) Prove the translations of the inscriptions are not also part of a fundamentalist agenda (remember, the "scholarly" journal this report comes from also claimed that microphones lowered into deep mine shafts in Russia recorded the voices of the damned in torment in Hell...not much scholarly rigor here, not much more can be expected in this current agenda driven media hysteria),

3) Prove the Joseph referred to was the same Joseph betrothed to Mary.

The text on this empty ossuary can prove NOTHING except that a guy was buried who was named James, was a son of a man named Joesph, and had a close relative, but not necessarily a blood brother, given the scriptural explanation already provided by NYer named Jesus.

Absolutely nothing can be concluded from this report beyond what I stated here.

NOTHING!

But in your puny fundamentalistic mind the entire YOPIOS tradition of the reformers has been proven.

How pathetic. Yer countin' yer chickens before they're hatched. When you are subsequently proven wrong --don't worry, you will be-- will you be so zealous to apologize for your error?

68 posted on 10/22/2002 5:25:04 PM PDT by Polycarp
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To: Polycarp
Correction. I always try to double check everything, and correct my own errors (wish others here would do this and admit when they're wrong even on a side issue, but I'm not holding my breath):

This legend is quite popular among Christian groups as it "proves" Hell (and therefore God) exists. Popular endings to the story have it that the scientists ran screaming from the site, or that since the discovery conversions to Christianity are occurring at an unprecedented rate.

Though it's impossible to pinpoint when the news story about a well in Russia transformed into a story about scientists breaking into Hell or who was responsible for that transformation, we do know that in 1989 the Trinity Broadcasting Network (TBN) aired a "Scientists Discover Hell" story and placed the event as happening in the Kola Peninsula. A Norwegian schoolteacher visiting California heard that broadcast and took the story back to Norway with him. He then mailed it to a Christian magazine in Finland. In the form of a letter from a reader, it reached a Finnish missionaries newsletter. From there it returned to the United States, reaching both the TBN people and other evangelists who then claimed they had gotten it from a respected Finnish scientific journal.

In the spring of 1990, the legend as we now know it appeared in both Praise The Lord (February) and Midnight Cry (April). Debunkings of it showed up in Christianity Today (July) and Biblical Archaeology Review (November). Even so, the Weekly World News ran the story in 1992, this time setting it in Alaska and claiming thirteen oil rig workers were killed when the Devil came roaring up out of the ground.


69 posted on 10/22/2002 5:46:56 PM PDT by Polycarp
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To: Polycarp
Those of us who love Jesus and revere His Father's Holy Word are today, dancing for joy, that a piece of hard physical evidence has CORROBORATED, for a world desperately looking for Truth amid all the lies, EXACTLY what is written in the Bible!!

But for those duped and brainwashed by the Whore of Babylon, this is a sad, bitter day. But not a day without hope, for God beckons and invites you join with Him!

REv 18:

4 Then I heard another voice calling from heaven, "Come away from her, my people. Do not take part in her sins, or you will be punished with her. 5 For her sins are piled as high as heaven, and God is ready to judge her for her evil deeds. 6 Do to her as she has done to your people. Give her a double penalty for all her evil deeds. She brewed a cup of terror for others, so give her twice as much as she gave out. 7 She has lived in luxury and pleasure, so match it now with torments and sorrows. She boasts, `I am queen on my throne. I am no helpless widow. I will not experience sorrow.' 8 Therefore, the sorrows of death and mourning and famine will overtake her in a single day. She will be utterly consumed by fire, for the Lord God who judges her is mighty."

70 posted on 10/22/2002 5:47:08 PM PDT by berned
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To: Polycarp
...the "scholarly" journal this report comes from also claimed that microphones lowered into deep mine shafts in Russia recorded the voices of the damned in torment in Hell...

LOL! Them crazy thumpers!

99 posted on 10/23/2002 5:44:42 AM PDT by Petronski
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To: Polycarp
Thought you might find this enlightening: From New Advent's online newsletter...

An "earth-shattering" box of bones?
Ancient artifact may have held the bones of St. James

     The magazine Biblical Archeology Review has announced a major new discovery near Jerusalem. It's an empty ossuary -- an ancient burial box for bones -- bearing the inscription Yaakov bar Yosef a khui Yeshua ("James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus"). Some scholars believe that this may refer to St. James the Less, the apostle and "brother of the Lord" mentioned in the Holy Bible.
     The story is already being widely reported in the secular press. (See The New York Times and the Associated Press, for instance.) You can expect to see much more coverage in the weeks ahead.
     Some have suggested that this might force the Church to change the ancient teaching on the perpetual virginity of Mary. Don't worry. This doctrine is infallible, and is guaranteed by the Holy Spirit to be true. Despite what some scholars and reporters might think, this artifact does not contradict Catholic dogma. To convince yourself, and to prepare to defend the Faith to others, read the articles below.

1. Saint James the Less.
There are two apostles named St. James: James the Greater (brother of St. John the Apostle) and James the Less (first Bishop of Jerusalem). The ossuary, if authentic, would have belonged to St. James the Less. Read more about him in this Catholic Encyclopedia article. More....

2. The Virgin Birth of Christ.
An excellent article on the dogma of the Perpetual Virginity of Mary, which teaches that she was a virgin before, during, and after the conception and birth of her Divine Son. Excerpted from the 1912 Catholic Encyclopedia. More....

3. The Brothers of the Lord.
The ossuary speaks of "James the Son of Joseph and Brother of Jesus," and the Bible calls James and three others "brothers" of Jesus. Does this contradict the irrefutable fact of Mary's perpetual virginity? Absolutely not -- and this article explains why. More....

Surprised by Truth 3. Subtitled More Men and Women Who Found New Life in the Catholic Church. In Patrick Madrid's widely anticipated sequel, ten more converts explain the scriptural and historical reasons that brought them to the Catholic Church. The first two books in this series were excellent, and sold hundreds of thousands of copies. This one promises to be the best yet.   Buy....


106 posted on 10/23/2002 10:32:49 AM PDT by COBOL2Java
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