Posted on 10/11/2002 6:10:44 AM PDT by apackof2
Scientific Approach
The founder of Reasons to Believe presents a rational Christian look at UFOs and extraterrestrials.
Hugh Ross has a B.S, Physics, University of British Columbia; M.S. & Ph.D., Astronomy, University of Toronto.
Mr. Ross is the co-author of, Lights in the Sky & Little Green Men (NavPress, 2002)
Hugh has been stargazing since he was a young boy, and by the age of 17, he had become director of observations for the Royal Astronomical Society in Canada. As an astronomer, Hugh has logged thousands of observation time and has learned that science can and does address the possibility of life’s existence elsewhere in the universe. In the mid-'70s, Hugh was assigned the task of processing UFO reports at CalTech. At the same time, Hugh began an intense study of the Bible. "Secular society is gullible about the possibility that extraterrestrial life exists without having scientific evidence to prove it," says Hugh. "The motivation for this book is the need to communicate clear, satisfying explanations from scientific, theological, philosophical, and political standpoints."
Hugh says that he uses the scientific approach called "the process of elimination" to answer the question Is there a place where extraterrestrials could live in the universe? Over the years, science has made some significant advances. "The number of candidates for life sites within the Milky Way grows smaller each day," says Hugh. At one time, biologists speculated that extraterrestrial life forms might be based on exotic chemistry, not carbon as earthly life is. But today the conclusion is that all conceivable life forms must be carbon-based. And if life forms exist on other planets, they must be planets like Earth, orbiting a star like the sun in a galaxy like the Milky Way. "Ongoing research shows that this seems less possible as each year passes," says Hugh.
Residual UFOs
Most people think UFOs are physical. "But they can’t be physical," says Hugh, "because they defy gravity." While Hugh does not say that UFOs aren’t real, no physical object can move like UFOs have been reported to move. Respected UFOolgists agree that there must be something real at the bottom of some UFO reports. Residual UFOs (RUFOs) is a terminology that refers to the UFOs that are left over after all the others are explained away. There is quite a bit of evidence that UFOs are real, such as crash sites. There are over 1,000 sites where allegedly the UFOs have crashed. "The ground is depressed, the trees and grass are burnt," says Hugh. "In these scenarios, we are dealing with non-physical reality." What this evidence suggests is that RUFOs are capable of producing physical effects, such as burnt grass, but are not physical themselves.
Hugh says the Bible proclaims the existence of a personal Creator who can act independently outside the cosmos and who is not restricted by the four, large space-time dimensions (length, width, height or time). The Bible also describes the spirit realm (the realm beyond matter, energy and space-time dimensions) and declares the existence of God and two or more distinct creatures: humans and angels. Hugh explains that humans remain physically restricted to the dimensions of the cosmos and cannot account for the unexplained phenomena. Angels, or fallen angels, remain as possible links. Fallen angels, or demons, intent on distorting God’s authority and purpose, draw attention away from God and the gospel and are an identifiable source of explanation.
The conclusion that demons are behind the RUFOs phenomenon is testable. According to the Bible, demons attack only those individuals who invite the attacks. "All that is necessary to further prove the conclusion of demonic involvements," says Hugh, "is to continue surveying people to ascertain who has encounters with RUFOs and who does not." Researchers continue to observe a correlation between the degree of invitations in a person’s life to demonic attacks (séance, Ouija boards, astrology, witchcraft, palm or psychic reading). One reason why research scientists may be reluctant to say specifically that demons exist behind the RUFOs is because that answer points too directly to a Christian interpretation of the problem.
Reasons to Believe is an interdenominational ministry that communicates the basis for belief in the Bible as the true Word of God.
www.reasons.org
The bible was written by men who were inspired by God to be read and understood by men.
Scientific errata: The bible was meant for men to know God, not to be diluted by language that the men of ancient times wouldn't understand.
Logical inconsistances: What you see as logical inconsistancies I see as parables meant to by understood by whom God chooses and who chooses God.
Historical innacuracies: What historical innaccuracies?
Other indications: What other indications?
Whatever your links say it doesn't explain their prediction of Sirius C though.
Maybe so. Demons pose as gods.
And remember: thou shalt have no gods before Hun Pic Tok.
What prophesies has HPT predicted?
Figures of speech are used all the time. A lot of people today use the term "four corners of the earth" and "disk of the sun". Those people certainly don't believe that the earth is flat or the sun is disk shaped.
If they refuse to see truth, let'em burn.
What prophesies has Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the tooth fairy foretold?
Flying reindeer towing a fat man in a sleigh, an Easter bunny, tooth fairy and supernatural God. Such mysticism injected into innocent little minds striving to accurately identify reality in their formative years. Often looking up to their parents to confirm whether or not they have accurately identified reality. Those young innocent children betrayed in the name of fun and love. What causes such hideous child abuse? Mysticism: the number-one disease of the conscious mind.
If you want an example of what atheists are capable of, check the 20th century. Do Stalin and Hitler ring a bell? 60 million murdered between the two of them.
What do you think of the 60 million killed by atheists in the 20th century?
I hate to stick up for fireworshipers, not being one myself, but they have to have gotten more prophesies right, through shear chance, than Jesus did. As one of many examples (and I'd be happy to list them), Jesus claimed "Then was fulfilled that which was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was priced, whom certain of the children of Israel did price; and they gave them for the potter's field as the Lord appointed me" (Matt. 27:9-10), when in reality Jeremiah said nothing even remotely similar to that. One would hope that The Son of Man might be capable of getting his biblical references right, wouldn't you? As I see it, there are two possible explanations: either Jesus deliberately lied and hoped no one would notice, or the divinely-inspired Matthew completely misquoted him.
I can't fathom seeking tricks or any thing from nothing. I think it's debilitating to a person who seeks that which doesn't exist in reality and only in their mind. Right up their with Santa Clause, an Easter Bunny and tooth fairy. 251
What prophesies has Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the tooth fairy foretold? 266
As with imagined Gods that don't exist in reality and exist only as mind-spun fabrications via rationalized minds not any imagined God, Allah, Santa Clause, Easter bunny or tooth fairy -- non-existent nothings -- could never produce anything, including prophesies.
Flying reindeer towing a fat man in a sleigh, an Easter bunny, tooth fairy and supernatural God. Such mysticism injected into innocent little minds striving to accurately identify reality in their formative years. Often looking up to their parents to confirm whether or not they have accurately identified reality. Those young innocent children betrayed in the name of fun and love. What causes such hideous child abuse? Mysticism: the number-one disease of the conscious mind. 251
If you want an example of what atheists are capable of, check the 20th century. Do Stalin and Hitler ring a bell? 60 million murdered between the two of them. 266
So now you're comparing widespread parental child abuse against Stalin and Hitler. Well, isn't that special -- NOT!
Oh yes, the famous argumentum-ad-Stalin-was-an-atheist-therefore-all-atheists-are-evil.
It's the story of the girdle. The ill-gotten gains of Judas was to Judas as the girdle was to the man that hid it at the Euphrates. It became worthless to him and that's why Judas threw the money into the temple. Here's the culmination of that story:
Jer 13:10 This evil people, which refuse to hear my words, which walk in the imagination of their heart, and walk after other gods, to serve them, and to worship them, shall even be as this girdle, which is good for nothing.
Maybe you oughta stick to arguing about simple things like circles and spheres.
That's exactly my point. Since your three examples don't exist (although Saint Nick was a real guy, but not in the sense that kids think of him), there's been no prophecies from them. But since God is there His prophecies have been coming true.
So now you're comparing widespread parental child abuse against Stalin and Hitler. Well, isn't that special -- NOT!
You're right, mass murder doesn't compare to child abuse. You say that Christians have a tendency toward child abuse. I don't know whether that's true or not as compared to the general population, but I do know the history of the atheists of the 20th century and it's pretty pretty pretty bad as Byrd would say.
I didn't say all atheists are evil, I said atheists are guilty of horrendous crimes. You guys try to protray athists as some kind of peace-loving population and that just isn't so. Most of the atheist societies committed the worst crimes committed by government in the 20th century.
I don't know where you get that from. I never said that, and I've never heard of anybody saying anything like that. Not only are you trying to make us look guilty of mass-murder by the most exagerated of associations, but you're being dishonest about it.
Most of the atheist societies committed the worst crimes committed by government in the 20th century.
I could quibble about the accuracy of that claim, but even assuming that statement is correct, so what? In one thirty-year period, Christian religious wars wiped out one-third the population of Europe. There are lots of bad people out there, and your argument just doesn't cut it. This isn't a debate between Vlad the Impaler and Joseph Stalin here.
You and Zon got all self-righteous accusing Christians of the evil of child abuse. Funny how you fail to mention the crimes of atheists.
Not only are you trying to make us look guilty of mass-murder by the most exagerated of associations, but you're being dishonest about it.
You don't believe in God, so what is the crime of murdering someone? Once the person is erased from existence, the harm is over and done with. If you murder someone in their sleep, was a crime even committed according to your atheist philosophy?
I could quibble about the accuracy of that claim,...
Stalin, Hitler, China, Cuba, Pol Pot. Who was worse than that lineup?
...but even assuming that statement is correct, so what? In one thirty-year period, Christian religious wars wiped out one-third the population of Europe.
That was done by a few that were empowering themselves by protraying themselves as Godly. When the general population became literate and could read the bible for themselves, murderers protraying themselves in this fashion lost their power and they had to turn to atheism to commit their genocides.
There are lots of bad people out there, and your argument just doesn't cut it. This isn't a debate between Vlad the Impaler and Joseph Stalin here
The bad thing is that literate atheists will support the likes of Stalin, literate Christians removed the murderous Christians from their power structures.
Like it or not, Hitler and Stalin are very relevent to a atheist vs. Christion debate when the debate turns to crimes committed by each. Zon and Andy made the mistake of taking this argument in that direction and now they're getting nuked for it.
I don't know what Zon posted, and I cannot answer for him. But I never accused Christians in general of child abuse, your libel to the contrary notwithstanding.
You don't believe in God, so what is the crime of murdering someone?
You're telling me that if you hadn't once read that God said "Thou shalt not kill," you'd be shooting people down on the streets? You really need God for that? That's sad.
Once the person is erased from existence, the harm is over and done with.
Actually, if you look at it that way, then atheism really places a much higher value on human life. A good, solid Christian dies, and who cares? He or she'll just spend eternity eating pealed grapes inside the Pearly Gates. An atheist dies, and that's it. If you've lived your life well, great. If not, that's it - you've blown it. But there's nobody around to bail you out.
Stalin, Hitler, China, Cuba, Pol Pot. Who was worse than that lineup?
Hitler wasn't an atheist.
That was done by a few that were empowering themselves by protraying themselves as Godly.
What are you talking about? Who the heck portrayed themselves as "Godly" during the Thirty Years War?
The bad thing is that literate atheists will support the likes of Stalin
Um, no. Stalinists support Stalin. Atheism isn't a political philosophy.
literate Christians removed the murderous Christians from their power structures.
Which explains how Christian Europe has been such a pacific paradise the last five hundred years?
Zon: As with imagined Gods that don't exist in reality and exist only as mind-spun fabrications via rationalized minds not any imagined God, Allah, Santa Clause, Easter bunny or tooth fairy -- non-existent nothings -- could never produce anything, including prophesies. 269
That's exactly my point. Since your three examples don't exist (although Saint Nick was a real guy, but not in the sense that kids think of him), there's been no prophecies from them. But since God is there His prophecies have been coming true.
I gave five example, not three. Interesting that you only mention three of the five examples given. The five examples are (1) God (2) Allah (3) flying Santa Clause (4) Easter bunny (5) tooth fairy. I do make prominent note that you didn't include Allah in the three examples.
Presumably since you didn't mention Allah in your three examples of non-existent mind-spun fabrications you believe Allah exists. Or is it the tooth fairy or Easter bunny that you believe exists?
You say that Christians have a tendency toward child abuse.
I challenge you to back up that claim with fact. I never said anything of the sort about Christians. So either back up your claim with facts or admit your error and correct it.
Zon got all self-righteous accusing Christians of the evil of child abuse.
I challenge you to back up that claim with fact. I never said anything of the sort about Christians. So either back up your claim with facts or admit your error and correct it.
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