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Maryland Sniper Shootings Update Thread
CNN, Fox, Local Radio and Television | October 8, 2002 | CNN, Fox, Breaking News

Posted on 10/08/2002 3:36:37 AM PDT by Peach

It's 6:30 a.m. EST and we're waiting to go to the second press conference providing media and local updates on the Maryland sniper shootings. To date, the 13 year old boy has survived the evening and seems to be improving. Fox News mentioned that his aunt is a nurse. The police briefing at 6:15 a.m. mentioned Todd Beamer's Let's Roll comment and police are urging people to use caution, good judgment, but remain strong and try to continue with everyday life as much as possible.

Police had a search warrant last night (didn't say for who or where) related to the sniper shootings, but the search did not provide any information to LEO.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: District of Columbia; US: Maryland; US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: banglist
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To: GeorgeandtheDralgore
I'll go a step further: they (I think there are 2 people) are very young (late teens or very young adults and might actually have something personal against the school where the last shooting occurred. Former students, maybe.

The degree of planning (no witnesses, clean get aways all the time) and discipline (one shot/victim) of this killer(s) suggests someone older. My guess 30-45.

561 posted on 10/08/2002 11:34:05 AM PDT by WRhine
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To: Fellow Traveler
Hey keep up the good work . I don't agree with you completely but I appreciate your view.

1. The killer is using a bolt action scoped rifle. Each time one and only one shot is fired. I think if anybody had access to a semiauto rifle more than one shot would have been fired at some time. Also a brass catcher would not have to be used. The one lady who was shot in the head would have been a difficult shot with iron sights only.....

The finding of brass could indicate the opposite, "one shot" why eject your brass? Use semi auto and  If your target falls, no need to fire another shot. The second shot will not be as accurate if you rapid fire so why fire it?

4. The killer does not display any great knowledge of firearms. It is possible to learn to do everything that he has done with only one weeks training. Learning to shoot a scoped rifle is considerably easier than shooting an iron sight rifle. 

I disagree,  shooting targets on a range is one thing, shooting people is completely different. Even if you are hunting deer it takes a while to steady yourself consistently when you see the Buck. This guy has the self control and  patience to squeeze off a good shot, under pressure every time. I think he has killed people before.

5.  Most people will survive hits from this type of weapon. A .30 caliber cartridge would be a surer bet for killing people. ....

I can think of a few recently dead people in that area of the country that would disagree with you on this one.

7. ..... I do not believe that anyone handloads .....This would indicate greater knowledge of firearms which I believe would leave someone to choose a different caliber weapon... 

Some do load their own. The choice of a weapon is a personal thing. It may be what he trained with. It may be because it is lighter, flat black color, feels better in his hands. It could be any number of reasons. I would choose a M-14 because it's what I am most comfortable with, not because it would be the best weapon. 

10. I think it is likely that two people are being used for the shooting team. One to drive and act as a lookout the other as the trigger man. So far the shooter has not made a mistake like taking a shot in the immediate presence of other people. It is hard to be focused on your shooting and looking all around yourself for potential witnesses. 

I might agree if he is a novice, not if he is well trained. He would recon.

12. The killer has displayed his relative lack of firearms knowledge again. The wounds on the boy hit on Monday appear to be lower down his body. It is likely that the killer did not adjust the point of impact for the longer range... The target was farther, the target was smaller,  the target could have been moving, he did his job in any case, this poor little  boy  still may die.  Schools are in disorder, people are afraid, sounds like terror to me.

Okay here is my conclusion , For what it's worth,  which is not much.

A Single Shooter, Dark Skin  or Black Man, 20-30, Muslim with US Military Training with M-16, probably Marine. Maybe hired or just pissed off.

Since this is my sincere belief, it will probably turn out to be a white  pimply faced teenager with his first gun who is mad at his girlfriend.

562 posted on 10/08/2002 11:34:46 AM PDT by bluecollarman
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To: All
What's the latest about the boy? How's he doing? Anybody knows?
563 posted on 10/08/2002 11:37:50 AM PDT by Elenya
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To: aristeides
Yes, it was p.m. I got it wrong.
564 posted on 10/08/2002 11:38:00 AM PDT by Peach
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To: Fellow Traveler; Shooter 2.5; Travis McGee; harpseal; in the Arena; spectr17
Albeit some points I can argue with, your great post is thought generating. My thinking on all this after reading, watching and listening for just a few days tells me were possibly looking for a shooter with a Scoped (3-12X Burris LER) Thompson Contender in .223 caliber. He's either carrying a small soft briefcase or day pack to use as transport and or possibly a solid rest and is using the parks as a hide or E&E route now.

All the killings from the first day allowed them to shoot from a vehicle but now is walking, riding a bike or Motorcycle possibly even jogging (albeit makes longer shots harder with accelerated heartbeat ect ect ...).

The TC single shot or Remington XP-100 style weapon is capable of 500 meter torso/brisket shots all day long in skilled hands. I personally use one on prariee poodles at extream ranges . This guy can carry such a rig under a light jacket while strolling down the street or standing in a crowd of on lookers and not be discovered.

Affluant area aside even a homeless sort or transient appearance is urban camoflage as is a Brooks Brothers suit and a briefcase in a BMW if the financial backing is there....... Think also people who are obvious in the area. Electric /Gas meter readers. Post Man or Woman.....Garbage truck driver. .... Telephone repairman, UPS-FEDX deliver trucks. Possibly even a LEO/FLEA or rent a cop patrolling the local high value homes. None of those folks normally brings a second glance. I suggest that all are suspect.

The only thing that bothers me is the .223 brass left behind that I believe is a false trail to show the markings on the brass as being fired from a semi-auto or bolt gun ie extractor, ejector, primer hit, type of fireing pin, bolt face scratches and other foreinsic ballistic data ect ect. That brass could have been picked up at a local firing range or bought from once fire bulk brass suppliers to seed the snipers hide IMHO.

By now the type of powder and bullet is known per infor recovered from the victims bodies. Commercial or Goobermint ammunition mfgr /DODIC lots have been identified and knowledge that the shooter is using a handload or bought round of ammo.

Right or wrong just some of my thoughts , ideas.......... tick :o)

Stay Safe !

565 posted on 10/08/2002 11:39:03 AM PDT by Squantos
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To: leadhead
School is at the corner of Tongue Ave and Collingworth Rd...Tongue is a dead end...the police really believe he parked a vehicle and fired a gun from a dead end? He sure as hell didn't park his vehicle on Collingworth Road...He parked his car at the park...may have walked to his finally shooting place...

my maps are trying to show...the convenience of the Parks...either as cover to fire or assemble a gun, or parking a vehicle, or sitting back and watching the pattern of traffic, people, activity in general...the pattern I am trying to portray is the PARKS are close to MOST of these events.

566 posted on 10/08/2002 11:39:18 AM PDT by antivenom
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To: antivenom
Impressive analysis. The only weakness (if it is one) in your loner theory is the places that don't have obvious open areas from which to shoot -- I'd think a nutjob of the sort you've described would stick to the open areas.

However, if there were some manmade equivalents to open areas in those spots, the complaint goes away.

567 posted on 10/08/2002 11:39:34 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: LisaFab
Do you have any other info on this subject you can post?

This is one link that I found interesting.

http://www.skfriends.com/bin-laden-killing-manual1.htm
568 posted on 10/08/2002 11:41:33 AM PDT by freeperfromnj
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To: Eva
If it turns out to have an ME connection, some counter-terrorism should be visited upon some Saudi types in the MD/DC area. Maybe their financial support will dry up if their life experience is about to have an abrupt end.
569 posted on 10/08/2002 11:41:33 AM PDT by leadhead
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To: relee
"340 Yards or 340 Feet?"

GEEEZ, has the media reported anything about this case that ISN'T totally garbled??

570 posted on 10/08/2002 11:41:59 AM PDT by cake_crumb
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To: blackdog
She plans on quitting her job and staying at home now. Thirty years of nutty liberal loony training all cured in six weeks of motherhood! There is hope for the left yet.

Good for her!Has she stopped voting for the dark side, as well?:-)
Life seems to have a built-in mechanism to force the logical thought processes to kick in at some point. At least for those who'll open their eyes and unplug their ears.;-)

Most leftist remain that way, knowing better, because they make a profit of some kind by being so stupid!

571 posted on 10/08/2002 11:42:59 AM PDT by GirlNextDoor
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To: SLB; Fred Mertz; AAABEST; Lion Den Dan; Varmint Al
My post above # 565....Comments ?

Stay Safe

572 posted on 10/08/2002 11:44:30 AM PDT by Squantos
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To: bluecollarman
It still sounds like a bolt action. There are over 50 models to choose from so I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the age of the guy is lower than what the authorities are saying. Most bolt action "sniper" rifles are in the .30 caliber range. I'm starting to think since it's pointing to a bolt action, the choice of the .223 was made because the person doesn't like recoil because of their stature. I don't think we're looking for a large person.

On the other hand I was given a great deal on a .223 and I couldn't pass it up. LOL.
573 posted on 10/08/2002 11:44:57 AM PDT by Shooter 2.5
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To: Peach; All
Bright of Carl Cameron (sp?) to explain how authorities seemed to be attempting to shake up the perp by calling him cowardly, heinous, etc. hoping he'll make a mistake as a result, wasn't it?

Lord, sometimes these reporters need duct taping!

574 posted on 10/08/2002 11:48:46 AM PDT by GirlNextDoor
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To: Mat_Helm
The fourth ammendment, its there for a reason.
575 posted on 10/08/2002 11:49:05 AM PDT by longtermmemmory
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To: Squantos
If they were confused about feet and yards in Monday's shooting, It could be a T/C or the other two pistol manufacturers.
It wouldn't bother me a bit if the media was wrong again. I already factor it into my thought processes.
576 posted on 10/08/2002 11:49:40 AM PDT by Shooter 2.5
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To: relee
Glendenning is trying to get the killer to come after him so his security people will catch the killer.

I don't mind our old stud Gov. being used as a stalking horse. Cripes,it's the first good use I've heard for him.....besides his Clinton imitations.

577 posted on 10/08/2002 11:49:55 AM PDT by leadhead
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To: WRhine
The degree of planning (no witnesses, clean get aways all the time) and discipline (one shot/victim) of this killer(s) suggests someone older. My guess 30-45.

I don't know, kids do watch a lot of very "informative" movies these days. But from what I've read elsewhere, people seem to agree that it takes discipline to fire only one shot. Sounds like a good point. However, if these kids have martial arts training, they could achieve it.

Of course if they are martial arts trained, they wouldn't be your typical nerds mad at their girlfriends or the world, but rather 2 cold calculating smart kids: the kind you see in those movies where they think they're so smart they can commit the perfect murder. I know, in these stories it's one murder, but it could be a variation on the theme....
(Can't remember the titles of any of these movies/books right now. Anybody knows?)

And I think the one who did the shooting yesterday is the weakest link...

578 posted on 10/08/2002 11:50:37 AM PDT by Elenya
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To: Letitring
Is it true the shot yesterday was from a range of 340?

Yep, at least that's where they found a spent casing which matched the other forensic tests. Could be a decoy, though. :)

579 posted on 10/08/2002 11:51:31 AM PDT by GirlNextDoor
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To: antivenom
See this for a bird's eye view looking into the shooter's glass at the Fredricksburg loc. It's a "park".
580 posted on 10/08/2002 11:54:30 AM PDT by spunkets
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