Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Backers of gun rights cite Constitution to make points
Greeley Tribune ^ | 9-3-02 | Anne Cumming

Posted on 09/03/2002 11:54:54 AM PDT by Pat Bateman

Backers of gun rights cite Constitution to make points

 Story By Anne Cumming

JOHNSTOWN — The back of a T-shirt summed up the flavor of a Labor Day barbecue in Johnstown on Monday.

"Gun Owners of America: If guns kill people, then pencils miss spel words, cars make people drive drunk, and spoons made Rosie O'Donnell fat."

About 300 people, some wearing Gun Owners of America T-shirts, showed up at Parish Park for hamburgers, potato salad and camaraderie with gun owners. Most said they don't want Washington to curb gun ownership and gun use.

"It's the Constitution we're all defending out here," said Jeff Andreski of Loveland. "I take part in groups like this for my children's future. I want them to have the same freedoms and rights I have."

The event was the annual Labor Day picnic sponsored by the Johnstown-based American Freedom Radio Network, heard on KHNC 1360-AM and KTMG-1370-AM. Larry Pratt, director of the national lobbying group Gun Owners of America, was the guest speaker.

"For me, gun control has always been a constitutional issue," said Pratt, who said he owns guns for self-defense, not for hunting or other sports. "Our desire is to roll back gun control. We're not rolling it back right now."

Pratt, who lives in Washington, D.C., calls into a weekly radio show and talks about gun control, one of many issues listeners hear on the conservative radio network.

Since it started in 1993, the network has featured programs about the Bible, finances, politics and natural health. It broadcasts across the Colorado Front Range and has listeners nationwide through satellite and the Internet.

Some people attended Monday's event to meet Pratt, who sold his book and signed people up to join Gun Owners of America. Some said Gun Owners of America is more effective at lobbying Congress than the National Rifle Association. Andreski said he left the National Rifle Association six years ago because he thought it was moving too far to the left politically.

"The NRA has become an arm of the Republican Party," said Dudley Brown of Brush, executive director of Rocky Mountain Gun Owners, a group that lobbies the Colorado legislature. He used to be a lobbyist for the National Rifle Association's Colorado affiliate.

"People don't know it, but Gun Owners of America and Larry Pratt are responsible for putting more pressure on Congress to eliminate gun control than anyone else in Washington," Brown said.


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Front Page News; US: Colorado
KEYWORDS: banglist
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-23 next last

1 posted on 09/03/2002 11:54:54 AM PDT by Pat Bateman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Pat Bateman
Bump!
2 posted on 09/03/2002 12:07:05 PM PDT by Leisler
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Leisler
...and I BUMP your BUMP!
3 posted on 09/03/2002 12:19:37 PM PDT by PoorMuttly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Pat Bateman
Anne's Cumming??? Nevermind !!!
4 posted on 09/03/2002 12:20:50 PM PDT by GeekDejure
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

To: Pat Bateman
GOA Members bump!

Semper Fi
6 posted on 09/03/2002 12:43:59 PM PDT by dd5339
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: PoorMuttly
Actually, I don’t care what it says in the Constitution. Even though I agree with the 2nd as written and the absolutist interpretation of it.

The right to arm oneself against other men is not discussible. There is no more dangerous animal than man, and no more dangerous men than those who have the emotional notion that leaders are correct. The biggest, badest criminal crew in the history of the world, are governments. Some more so than others, but only by degree. I trust total strangers, without title or position, who are armed to the teeth than any agents of the government. I have had but one attempt of robbery upon me, in my life. But the government takes, by threat and force from me each and every day. It says that if I am a good little working stiff, some day, provided my hart doesn’t quit, nor my body worn down from decades of stress doesn’t succumb to cancer, I can have my reward of but pennies on my dollars.
7 posted on 09/03/2002 1:03:43 PM PDT by Leisler
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Leisler
To me, it is also "self-evident."
8 posted on 09/03/2002 1:05:43 PM PDT by PoorMuttly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: PoorMuttly
Right. That should IS the "reason" for guns. Not something the word weasels can twist.
9 posted on 09/03/2002 1:19:09 PM PDT by Leisler
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Pat Bateman; *bang_list
I bang everybody's bump
10 posted on 09/03/2002 1:37:32 PM PDT by SteveH
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Leisler
Ahhh, to return to that simpler, happier time of the late 30s and 40s across the Atlantic!

There IS a way!

CAMP GUNFREE.
A common sense and historically proven way to keep those dangerous and destructive GUNS out of YOUR life.
MEMBERSHIPS AVAILABLE NOW!
Details below

Concerned about the easy availability of guns in our society?

Alarmed about the "gun nuts" and other freedom wackos the government allows to run loose?

Wish the government would just repeal the Second Amendment and confiscate all the guns because you believe sensible people shouldn't suffer because of some idiotic notion about some antiquated “right?”

While we can't take the guns away from the people, we CAN take the people (or at least SOME of them) away from their guns.

At CAMP GUNFREE, we have created an atmosphere of near-total tranquility where you and your family will experience the benefits of a GUN FREE environment.


The unique main gate at Camp GunFree. Most arriving camp guests never see this view from their comfortable rail cars.

Each of our camps is a gated community designed to keep guns away from camp guests. Firmly enforced security measures ensure that these dangerous and destructive devices are kept outside. Each camp boasts 24 hour, 7 day a week sentries and state-of-the-art enclosure systems, guard dogs, trenches and surveillance equipment to absolutely GUARANTEE that no firearms enter the facility. Rigidly controlled access ensures that no guns can ever be smuggled in.

No cost has been spared to ensure that Camp GunFree remains gun free.

All camp members are given distinctive uniforms to distinguish them from any gun-toting barbarians who might attempt to evade our security measures. Each camp member is also assigned a distinctive ID number to ensure that only the right people are allowed within the camp.


Room and board are provided to each member in exchange for rewarding tasks designed to provide a sense of accomplishment and to demonstrate that large numbers of people CAN exist in a gun violence free community.

Camp members engaged in one of our many fun-filled organized work activities.


The current headlines prompt us to remind you that there has NEVER been a shooting by a student in any of the camp schools and we can GUARANTEE that there never will be!!

For more information, call 1-800-GUNFREE
OR visit our new website at
http://www.privategunsareabadthingandwe'llseethatyouare”safe”.batf.gov

(This idea from a pamphlet originally created by The Minnesota Center for Individual Liberty, PO Box 32170, Minneapolis, MN 55432-0170)

11 posted on 09/03/2002 1:42:23 PM PDT by Dick Bachert
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Dick Bachert
Hey, a weight loss program. Just what I need!
12 posted on 09/03/2002 2:05:06 PM PDT by Leisler
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Pat Bateman
Backers of gun rights cite Constitution to make points

Why, the nerve of them!

13 posted on 09/03/2002 2:20:52 PM PDT by RogueIsland
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pat Bateman
" Some said Gun Owners of America is more effective at lobbying Congress than the National Rifle Association. Andreski said he left the National Rifle Association six years ago because he thought it was moving too far to the left politically.

I have so far asked 9 people which gun laws has the GOA stopped and I still havn't received an answer. It's getting not so funny that the second a GOA member is asked about their organization, the NRA is mentioned. It's as though the consept of the NRA having 4 1/2 million members and the GOA having the same amount is alien to them. If the GOA would just shut up and expand their numbers without mentioning the NRA, we could double our influence.

14 posted on 09/03/2002 2:44:20 PM PDT by Shooter 2.5
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Leisler
Yep. This program is guaranteed to rid you of your ENTIRE body weight. One time!
15 posted on 09/03/2002 3:09:02 PM PDT by Dick Bachert
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Pat Bateman
Some of our politicians might say:

Cite the "What?" to make a point.

16 posted on 09/03/2002 4:08:45 PM PDT by J Jay
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: J Jay
THE UNABRIDGED SECOND AMENDMENT

by J. Neil Schulman

If you wanted to know all about the Big Bang, you'd ring up Carl Sagan, right ? And if you wanted to know about desert warfare, the man to call would be Norman Schwarzkopf, no question about it. But who would you call if you wanted the top expert on American usage, to tell you the meaning of the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution ?

That was the question I asked A.C. Brocki, editorial coordinator of the Los Angeles Unified School District and formerly senior editor at Houghton Mifflin Publishers -- who himself had been recommended to me as the foremost expert on English usage in the Los Angeles school system. Mr. Brocki told me to get in touch with Roy Copperud, a retired professor of journalism at the University of Southern California and the author of "American Usage and Style: The Consensus."

A little research lent support to Brocki's opinion of Professor Copperud's expertise.

Roy Copperud was a newspaper writer on major dailies for over three decades before embarking on a a distinguished 17-year career teaching journalism at USC. Since 1952, Copperud has been writing a column dealing with the professional aspects of journalism for "Editor and Publisher", a weekly magazine focusing on the journalism field.

He's on the usage panel of the American Heritage Dictionary, and Merriam Webster's Usage Dictionary frequently cites him as an expert. Copperud's fifth book on usage, "American Usage and Style: The Consensus," has been in continuous print from Van Nostrand Reinhold since 1981, and is the winner of the Association of American Publisher's Humanities Award.

That sounds like an expert to me.

After a brief telephone call to Professor Copperud in which I introduced myself but did not give him any indication of why I was interested, I sent the following letter:

"I am writing you to ask you for your professional opinion as an expert in English usage, to analyze the text of the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution, and extract the intent from the text.

"The text of the Second Amendment is, 'A well-regulated Militia, being necessary for the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.'

"The debate over this amendment has been whether the first part of the sentence, 'A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State', is a restrictive clause or a subordinate clause, with respect to the independent clause containing the subject of the sentence, 'the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.'

"I would request that your analysis of this sentence not take into consideration issues of political impact or public policy, but be restricted entirely to a linguistic analysis of its meaning and intent. Further, since your professional analysis will likely become part of litigation regarding the consequences of the Second Amendment, I ask that whatever analysis you make be a professional opinion that you would be willing to stand behind with your reputation, and even be willing to testify under oath to support, if necessary."

My letter framed several questions about the test of the Second Amendment, then concluded:

"I realize that I am asking you to take on a major responsibility and task with this letter. I am doing so because, as a citizen, I believe it is vitally important to extract the actual meaning of the Second Amendment. While I ask that your analysis not be affected by the political importance of its results, I ask that you do this because of that importance."

After several more letters and phone calls, in which we discussed terms for his doing such an analysis, but in which we never discussed either of our opinions regarding the Second Amendment, gun control, or any other political subject, Professor Copperud sent me the follow analysis (into which I have inserted my questions for the sake of clarity):

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [Copperud:] "The words 'A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state,' contrary to the interpretation cited in your letter of July 26, 1991, constitutes a present participle, rather than a clause. It is used as an adjective, modifying 'militia,' which is followed by the main clause of the sentence (subject 'the right', verb 'shall'). The to keep and bear arms is asserted as an essential for maintaining a militia.

"In reply to your numbered questions:

[Schulman:] "(1) Can the sentence be interpreted to grant the right to keep and bear arms solely to 'a well-regulated militia'?"

[Copperud:] "(1) The sentence does not restrict the right to keep and bear arms, nor does it state or imply possession of the right elsewhere or by others than the people; it simply makes a positive statement with respect to a right of the people."

[Schulman:] "(2) Is 'the right of the people to keep and bear arms' granted by the words of the Second Amendment, or does the Second Amendment assume a preexisting right of the people to keep and bear arms, and merely state that such right 'shall not be infringed'?"

[Copperud:] "(2) The right is not granted by the amendment; its existence is assumed. The thrust of the sentence is that the right shall be preserved inviolate for the sake of ensuring a militia."

[Schulman:] "(3) Is the right of the people to keep and bear arms conditioned upon whether or not a well regulated militia, is, in fact necessary to the security of a free State, and if that condition is not existing, is the statement 'the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed' null and void?"

[Copperud:] "(3) No such condition is expressed or implied. The right to keep and bear arms is not said by the amendment to depend on the existence of a militia. No condition is stated or implied as to the relation of the right to keep and bear arms and to the necessity of a well-regulated militia as a requisite to the security of a free state. The right to keep and bear arms is deemed unconditional by the entire sentence."

[Schulman:] "(4) Does the clause 'A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,' grant a right to the government to place conditions on the 'right of the people to keep and bear arms,' or is such right deemed unconditional by the meaning of the entire sentence?"

[Copperud:] "(4) The right is assumed to exist and to be unconditional, as previously stated. It is invoked here specifically for the sake of the militia."

[Schulman:] "(5) Which of the following does the phrase 'well-regulated militia' mean: 'well-equipped', 'well-organized,' 'well-drilled,' 'well-educated,' or 'subject to regulations of a superior authority'?"

[Copperud:] "(5) The phrase means 'subject to regulations of a superior authority;' this accords with the desire of the writers for civilian control over the military."

[Schulman:] "(6) (If at all possible, I would ask you to take account the changed meanings of words, or usage, since that sentence was written 200 years ago, but not take into account historical interpretations of the intents of the authors, unless those issues can be clearly separated."

[Copperud:] "To the best of my knowledge, there has been no change in the meaning of words or in usage that would affect the meaning of the amendment. If it were written today, it might be put: "Since a well-regulated militia is necessary tot he security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged.'

[Schulman:] "As a 'scientific control' on this analysis, I would also appreciate it if you could compare your analysis of the text of the Second Amendment to the following sentence,

"A well-schooled electorate, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and read Books, shall not be infringed.'

"My questions for the usage analysis of this sentence would be,

"(1) Is the grammatical structure and usage of this sentence and the way the words modify each other, identical to the Second Amendment's sentence?; and

"(2) Could this sentence be interpreted to restrict 'the right of the people to keep and read Books' _only_ to 'a well-educated electorate' -- for example, registered voters with a high-school diploma?"

[Copperud:] "(1) Your 'scientific control' sentence precisely parallels the amendment in grammatical structure.

"(2) There is nothing in your sentence that either indicates or implies the possibility of a restricted interpretation."

Professor Copperud had only one additional comment, which he placed in his cover letter: "With well-known human curiosity, I made some speculative efforts to decide how the material might be used, but was unable to reach any conclusion

Link: http://www.shadeslanding.com/firearms/unabridged.2nd.html

17 posted on 09/03/2002 4:22:43 PM PDT by groanup
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Shooter 2.5
The GOA hasn't endorsed compromise gun control laws, either.

Apparently your only measure of success is laws stoped or reversed. That is a very narrow definition. According to you, the SAS is a failure because they haven't stopped any gun control laws. The TRT is also a failure for the same reason.

Dude, you'd better realize that there are other games in town and that the NRA is not the end all and be all for gun owners and 2A advocates.

It seems that if an 2a rights advocate isn't with or praising the NRA, it doens't matter to you.

It is high time that you realized that there are going to be effective individuals and groups apart from the NRA. Why does it bother you that other forces may be emerging?

It is beginning to look as if getting the credit is more important to you than winning the battle and if activists don't have the 'proper' memebership cards then they ain't worth crap to you.

Maybe you are part of the problem and not part of the solution.

18 posted on 09/03/2002 4:36:59 PM PDT by Eagle Eye
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Eagle Eye
Your post mentioned the NRA three times. Any chance that I can find out what the other gun groups are doing instead of their members telling me what the NRA is or is not doing?

By the way, I can't tell you how many times I have posted that it's important that every gun owner join A group and I don't care which one.
If you're a member of another group, I'm all ears to hear what that group is doing. I'm not interested in what the NRA is or is not doing from people who are not members.
19 posted on 09/03/2002 4:58:40 PM PDT by Shooter 2.5
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

Comment #20 Removed by Moderator


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-23 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson