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Baghdad called easy foe
New York Daily News ^ | 8/04/02 | AP

Posted on 08/04/2002 2:33:02 AM PDT by kattracks

CAIRO - For all Saddam Hussein's bluster, his regime would quickly collapse under a U.S. military onslaught, experts in the region say.

The Iraqi Army is so weak and demoralized after defeat in the 1991 Persian Gulf War and years of doing without new weapons that it would "fall like a sandcastle" if attacked by the U.S., said Egypt's former chief of staff, retired Gen. Salah Halaby.

Defense analysts say Iraq's equipment is largely of pre-1990, Warsaw Pact vintage. It has about 2,000 tanks, including a few hundred relatively modern T-72s, and a few hundred jet fighters and interceptors.

It's unclear how effectively maintained they are. United Nations sanctions imposed after the invasion of Kuwait have made spare parts hard to get.

The Associated Press



TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events
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1 posted on 08/04/2002 2:33:03 AM PDT by kattracks
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To: kattracks
Is this news to anybody in the US?
2 posted on 08/04/2002 2:33:46 AM PDT by ECM
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Comment #3 Removed by Moderator

To: kattracks
If Iraq is such a patsy what the hell are we waiting for?
Let's go get the M.F.
4 posted on 08/04/2002 3:41:52 AM PDT by Joe Boucher
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To: spitbolt
They did, but China had some pretty good ones.
5 posted on 08/04/2002 3:44:09 AM PDT by kattracks
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To: spitbolt
Yeah they did, and they were wiped out in the Tet offensive.
6 posted on 08/04/2002 4:36:08 AM PDT by Arkie2
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To: spitbolt
The VietCong and NVA had determination and a cause America had an uncommited Congress and population. No comparison.
7 posted on 08/04/2002 4:39:12 AM PDT by Cagey
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To: Arkie2
Yeah they did, and they were wiped out in the Tet offensive.

I wasn't sure if that was intendedly ironically. It's my understanding that all the heavy fighting after the 1968 Tet offensive was done by the NVA, the VC having been proven to incapable of defeating the US and ARVN, give their spectacular defeat. Tet was a propaganda victory but a military debacle.

8 posted on 08/04/2002 4:40:14 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets
It's my understanding the NVA ordered the Tet offensive and wasn't sorry to see the Cong wiped out. It cleared the way for them to totally dominate Vietnam after the war.
9 posted on 08/04/2002 4:43:33 AM PDT by Arkie2
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To: kattracks
Damn, Bill and Hillary wanted to lead America in great war (what fatuous asses). Now's his chance to lead from the front.

Recently, Bill said that given certain conditions, which stipulation must be carely interperted in the light of precedent and the meaning of "is", he would grab a rifle and fight and die in the trenches. While this late life blood lust is not uncommon in those who have never had the opportunity to purge it when young, I suggest we find a rifle, a trench and some death to sate his latest post-presidential appetite.
10 posted on 08/04/2002 4:46:39 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets
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To: spitbolt
I also heard the Vietcong had some pretty crappy weapons too.

Perhaps your memory needs prodding. Do you remember what happened a decade ago? We pretty much destroyed their whole "army" in 72 hours.

11 posted on 08/04/2002 4:48:49 AM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: Arkie2
It's my understanding the NVA ordered the Tet offensive and wasn't sorry to see the Cong wiped out.

Sounds too Machiavellian and too dangerous for me. The NVA had logistical problems, which were ameliorated when the U.S. "Stopped the Bombing". A resolute US would have been undefeatable. They couldn't seriously attack US might, so they undermined US resolve.

12 posted on 08/04/2002 4:54:17 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets
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To: kattracks
If Iraq is so weak, why hasn't Iran, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, or Jordan already taken them over? Over-running the weak is a Muslim tradition, you know.
13 posted on 08/04/2002 5:48:37 AM PDT by bimbo
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets
Tet was a propaganda victory but a military debacle.

The importance of your fact (above) cannot be stressed enough. That propaganda victory:
1) demoralized Johnson into not seeking re-election.
2) emboldened a Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia.
3) emboldened the N. Korean hijacking of the USS Pueblo and the imprisoning of the crew.
4) led to the Marxist Yippy riots at the Democrat National Convention, the first step in the subsequent Leftist takeover of that party.

( Others on this forum can probably add to my list. And I wouldn't be surprised if intelligence showed that there was a link between the Tet Offensive and the Assassination of Martin Luther King and the assassination of Robert F. Kennedy. )

14 posted on 08/04/2002 6:10:20 AM PDT by bimbo
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To: bimbo; kattracks; ECM; Joe Boucher; All
If Iraq is so weak, why hasn't Iran, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, or Jordan already taken them over? Over-running the weak is a Muslim tradition, you know.

- Bimbo.

The reason is simple. Iraq is indeed very weak when compared to the military might of the US. However when compared to its neighbors Iraq is not weak ...it is quite strong!

Think of it as simple strength progression! The smallest adult African lion (or Indian Gir lion for that matter) will see even the biggest German Shepherd as PATHETICALLY weak, even though the pooch is on steroids and psychedelics! However put that same German Shepherd next to a Chihuahua and the story gets flipped.

Same thing here.

The US may see Iraq's army and airfoce and 'manned target drones' and 'mobile AGM targets,' but that does not mean Iraq is weak to Saudi Arabia. Actually weren't the Sauds scared stiff during events leading to the Gulf War? Why? Because Iraq could overwhelm them if they did not receive any US help (although part of me would actually enjoy Iraq smiting Saudi Arabia ...although first i think we should start getting Russian oil before that happened).

Turkey does have an outstanding military. So does Israel, obviously ....remember how Israel managed to defeat several Arab nations at the same time. Egypt too has a huge military capability since it receives the second largest military aid after Israel from the US.

However the only nation that can easily (eliminating such luminaries as Russia and Israel) go in and smack Iraq is the USA. Whcih is why Iraq may be weak to us but still a gorilla to its neighbors.

Trust me, if THEY could have gotten rid of Saddam they would have (and although Israel could easily take care of that problem with the nuclear weapons 'it does not possess' it has prudently chosen to back off and let Saddam get taken care of by the US since that would cause less problems. After all the whole world seems to be against Israel nowadays).

15 posted on 08/04/2002 6:38:22 AM PDT by spetznaz
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To: spetznaz
My though these times are a changing. The U.S. and Russia aligning to help each other out. Where else can the russians sell the magnitude of oil they need to stay a player in the global econemy?Where can the U.S. maintain a supply of much needed oil? Sounds like a wonderful way to dump the a-hole Saudis.
16 posted on 08/04/2002 8:55:34 AM PDT by Joe Boucher
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To: bimbo
3) emboldened the N. Korean hijacking of the USS Pueblo and the imprisoning of the crew.
¿check your dates?
17 posted on 08/04/2002 10:05:44 AM PDT by DUMBGRUNT
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To: Jack-A-Roe
Yeah, but he's had free reign since 98 when he said no more inspectors and Bubba said, "OK."
18 posted on 08/04/2002 10:47:12 AM PDT by TxBec
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To: TxBec
True, they probably have more stockpiles of WMD these days, but those things don't help their fighting ability, and they wouldn't help them prolong the war. All they do is make the battlefield a little messier in the short time it would take to annihilate them. Remember the Buchanans and Novaks of the world screeching about "another Vietnam" a decade ago? Well, not even those fools are dumb enough to make a similiar prediction this time around.
19 posted on 08/04/2002 10:55:38 AM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: DUMBGRUNT
¿check your dates?

... January 23,1968 ... near the start of the TET offensive - likely a coordinated effort between the Communist nations, don't you think? So technically you are correct. My point was that the TET Offensive and the Communist propoganda victory had repercussions far more historically significant than many people realize.

Undoubtedly, 1968 was the ugliest year in American history, for me. My cousin was killed near the start of the Tet Offensive when the Communists overran Lang Vei; he wasn't even 20 yet, and I still miss him.

20 posted on 08/04/2002 5:53:14 PM PDT by bimbo
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