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To: crystalk
The Concord grape was discovered at Concord, Mass, which is further north than most of the Norse settlements.

The place in Newfoundland where there is purported to be the original Norse settlement is now even devoid of trees.

During that time period the Norse were growing grains in Southern Greenland.

That climatological period of time is known as the "Midevil Maximum". it was followed by the "Little Ice Age" when the Norse vanished from Greenland. The reason for the Norse leaving N. America is less clear.

31 posted on 07/30/2002 6:41:51 PM PDT by Mike Darancette
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To: Mike Darancette
No one seriously believes the Lantsy-Meadows site was ever intended to be a permanent settlement, or a settlement at ALL for that matter-- or was even IN Vinland at all!

Two ships --possibly intending to settle or colonize SOMEWHERE or other, came to some little grief at that spot on the coast, and went to some trouble to thoroughly repair one or both of their vessels. Probably had just limped in. Women and livestock were along to some degree.

This very early on, as likely c982-7 as later around 1012. Greenland was only receiving its first settlers itself, then! These 2 ships may have been headed for Greenland to settle, and missed it, running too far south to make Cape Farewell--a common problem for Greenland-bound sailors all during the Viking heydays.

Quite a lot of work was done, they stayed over two winters, then sailed away in the second spring, thus they were there some 18 months in all and then sailed away never to look back, never to return. Probably they went on to Greenland, their intended destination all along! If Vinland had been their destination, they would have had no reason to do their boat repair way up there in the harsh Arctic, for Vinland too was forested, so they could have gone on to their goal, and lived permanently. Only a complete dire sinking emergency could explain Lantsy Meadows in that case. No evidence any other Vikings ever returned to that site.

The kindest explanation would be that since Greenland had no timber, these were Greenlanders seeking the nearest timbered coast, there to renew/rebuild their vessels. Maybe they built a third vessel from scratch!

Again, nothing to do with Vinland, nothing to do with the Vinland map, never any grapes, never any wheat, never ANYTHING, except a good place to repair ships, with bog iron nearby even --which they DID work, for the iron fittings and etc needed.

It is very unclear that any Norse who lived in North America ever DID leave it, I am sure they died here. Roger Williams, the first Englishman or white of any kind, to settle in the 17th century on Narragansett Bay, the central Vinland featured area, said that in his opinion the local "Indians" were all descended from Icelanders at least in part, as was their language. He also says that those who later converted to Protestantism and English dress and farming, could not be distinguised from the other English colonists by their looks, but only by their speech.

Verrazano who visited in about 1515 or so, said the natives there were "white"-- totally white, whiter than Venetian Italians or his own crew. Avoid common mistranslations, look at what he actually wrote in his own tongue! He also saw two blond white children on a dock near Portsmouth, NH, but was prevented by foul winds and his hurry to get back to Europe before winter, from coming ashore there as the children beckoned him to do.

33 posted on 07/30/2002 9:32:19 PM PDT by crystalk
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To: Mike Darancette
There were still quite a few Norse in Greenland at year 1500-1503, when Portuguese slavers came and rounded them all up to work in the Brazil colony. Only a few escaped this, and took up residence with the Eskimos after that.

The Portuguese, BTW, when asked where they had gotten these tough, hardworking workers ="Labradors" in Portuguese-- lied and said they had found them in the wastes of what we call "Labrador"== a joke 500 years old now.

They didn't want to disclose where they really had got them, so they could maybe come back and get more. Certainly they didn't want to tell the English.

34 posted on 07/30/2002 9:40:05 PM PDT by crystalk
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