Hazmat Teams Prepare For Hydrogen Fluoride To Be Found

WYFF-TV ^ | 7/1-7/3/02 | The Carolina Channel

[PJeffQ]

Stolen Chemical A Big Potential Hazard

Hazmat Teams Prepare For Hydrogen Fluoride To Be Found
Posted: 3:11 p.m. EDT July 1, 2002
Updated: 10:00 a.m. EDT July 3, 2002

GREENVILLE, S.C. -- The whereabouts 500 pounds of a dangerous chemical and the people who stole it were still a mystery Tuesday to Greenville County, state and federal authorities.Investigators are concerned about finding the material and about what might happen when they do.

The five navy blue cylinders of hydrogen fluoride were taken from National Welders Supply on White Horse Road sometime Thursday night or Friday morning.

Company managers said they fear that whoever stole the hydrogen fluoride may have thought the cylinders contained a type of ammonia used in making methamphetamine.

There are some reports that hydrogen fluoride can also be used in the manufacture of the illegal drug.

Investigators said that they fear when the thieves realize their mistake, they will dump the deadly industrial acid, creating a severe health hazard.

Greenville County's hazardous materials team has spent much of the past two days going over the specifics of handling hydrogen fluoride, also known as hydrofluoric acid, and combating the material and its fumes if they escape into the environment.

The hazmat team assists fire departments and EMS workers when a chemical-spill cleanups.

"We are an industrial area and there's a tremendous amount of hazardous material that runs up and down the road and (is located) at the plant sites," Greenville County hazmat chairman J.R. Boyce told News 4's Todd Gladfelter.

The hazmat workers have their chemical suits and equipment ready and have had some practice with the missing chemical. They assisted with the cleanup of a hydrogen fluoride leak at an Upstate plant.

"We're seeing more and more theft of chemicals," Boyce told News 4. "Specific chemicals they can use that they can't go out and buy. This is a growing trend."

The cylinders are each about 4 feet tall, weigh more than 100 pounds and should be labeled "hydrogen fluoride" with a skull and crossbones.

Anyone who sees the cylinders or has any information about where they might be is asked to call the Greenville County Sheriff's Office at 232-7463 23-CRIME.

Investigators said that late Thursday night or early Friday morning, someone cut a truck-sized hole in the back fence at National Welder's Supply.

Investigators are treating the theft as a burglary and larceny case, but have called in the FBI and the State Law Enforcement Division as a precaution, given the heightened alert for possible terrorist attacks around the July 4 holiday.

"It could just be a theft. It could be somebody could have taken it not knowing what they had," Greenville Sheriff's Sgt. James McCann told WYFF News 4's Nigel Robertson. "It could be another welding company. We just don't know."

The Occupational Safety and Health Administration describes the chemical as a colorless and odorless liquid that easily takes on a gaseous form.

It is extremely corrosive and presents serious dangers to people who might come in contact with it by inhaling vapors or skin contact.

Copyright 2002 by TheCarolinaChannel. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

[PJeffQ]

Hydrogen Fluoride fact sheet

[MikeJ]

Hydrofluoric acid is scary stuff.

Remember the good old days, when you'd read something like this and think "Gee, I hope it wasn't drug dealers who took this stuff?"

[PJeffQ]

I wasn't around to post the story when it first broke... I had to go to the WYFF site just to find it again... to my knowledge they haven't found it or the thieves yet...

[11B3]

I'd like to see the results of some tweaker trying to use HF to make their dope!!! Alkalai metals tend to react quite violently when exposed to a strong acid such as this. BOOM!! Plus the fact that HF is a numbing agent - the only way you know that you've been burned by it is to look. You don't feel it while the meat drips off of your bones. Typical dumba$$ tweakers.

[Khepera]

They better spray paint those things green.

[IronJack]

Hydroflouric acid is one of the few substances on earth that will dissolve glass. It has lingering toxic effects on the human body, and is one of the deadliest acids known. It is not play-dough.

[general_re]

Indeed - it is used industrially to etch and frost glass. Not to mention that it is rather volatile, and very much prefers to be a gas at room temperature. Whoever lifted this stuff is in a world of hurt if they pop open on of those canisters...

[LurkedLongEnough]

Does anyone remember this post from mid-June? Daniel Field airplane stolen? The two events are less than 200 miles apart.

[PJeffQ]

Remember reading it in the Augusta Chronicle... didnt see it here...

[Tourist Guy]

Help me out here: what is the difference between Hydrogen Flouride (from the article) and Sodium Flouride (from my toothpaste - that has a warning not to ingest it)?

[VOA]

Indeed - it is used industrially to etch and frost glass.

Yep, used it in analytical chemistry class in an experiment meant to
release the metals from headlight lamp glass for subsequent analysis.

The experiment didn't go too well, but I do remember it well...
because a day after I did it, it noticed as small open wound on my hand between my
thumb and forefinger, looked like someone had surgically dissolved about the first
couple of millimeters of my flesh in a neat, cleanly edged circle of
about two millimeters diameter.

I dread to think about substantial quantities of this stuff getting thrown around.

[Right Wing Professor]

Same difference as there is between sodium chloride (common salt) and hydrochloric acid (muriatic acid). The big difference is that fluorides like NaF and HF are respiratory poisons, while chlorides are not. So HCl can burn you, corrode your lungs, etc., but it won't poison you.

HF is more dangerous than NaF because it's not just toxic and corrosive, but it can also as a vapor attack your skin and lungs. And because it's a respiratory poison, it knocks out your nerve cells, so you don't even feel it, for a couple of days. Then it hurts like hell for 6 months, since HF burns take forever to heal.

There's nasty stuff, truly nasty stuff, and HF.

[scouse]

HF also has an affiniity for calcium, so if you so much as get a pin head sized drop on your skin, you had better move in a hurry to the KOH tank.

[Tourist Guy]

I'll take your word for it, but hydrogen fluoride is what
HF
sodium floride is NaF

your example takes a bigger leap to acid, I'm a bit off thread here but what is the difference between Hydrogen fluoride and sodium fluoride?

[humblegunner]

Break out the book.

[dirtboy]

Help me out here: what is the difference between Hydrogen Flouride (from the article) and Sodium Flouride (from my toothpaste - that has a warning not to ingest it)?

Hydrogen Floride is an acid. Sodium Floride is a salt. Same difference between Hydrogen Chloride (Hydrochloric Acid) and Sodium Chloride (table salt).

[Tourist Guy]

Okay, I think I've got it. Shouldn't have cut out of science class back in high school.

[Tourist Guy]

On the other hand, why is there a warning on my toothpaste not to ingest it??

[Right Wing Professor]

I'll take your word for it, but hydrogen fluoride is what HF sodium floride is NaF Sorry

HF = Hydrogen fluoride = hydrofluoric acid

NaF = Sodium fluoride

Sodium fluoride is a salt, like sodium chloride (table salt). Every salt has a parent acid. Hydrochloric acid is the parent acid of sodium chloride: hydrogen fluoride or hydrofluoric acid is the parent acid of sodium fluoride.

If sodium fluoride is toxic (which it is, in anything but very small amounts) then its parent acid has the same toxicity, but in addition it has all the volatility and the corrosive properties of an acid.

[Right Wing Professor]

Fluorides are good for your teeth in very small amounts, but toxic in larger amounts. So they can put them in toothpaste, where they're absorbed into your teeth, figuring you'll spit them out. But if you ate, say, an entire tube of toothpaste, you'd probably get enough fluoride to do you some harm. And for every dumb thing that could possibly be done, there's at least one dummy who'll do it, and at least 500 lawyers who'll be prepared to sue on his behalf.