Pakistani Cleric Warns of Upheaval

Associated Press ^ | Monday, July 01, 2002 | MUNIR AHMAD

[Dog Gone]

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (AP) -- A top Pakistani Muslim cleric said Monday that the fiercely independent tribesmen living near the Afghan border may resort to violent protest if the military continues a major U.S.-backed search for al-Qaida fugitives in the mountainous area.

``I warn Musharraf to refrain from expanding operations in tribal areas where tribesmen are extremely upset,'' Maulana Fazle ur-Rehman, chief of the fundamentalist Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam told The Associated Press by telephone from the eastern city of Lahore.

``I am trying my best to cool down my party in tribal areas, but things will slip out of my hands if these American-backed operations continue there,'' he said. ``There will be riots and civil disobedience.''

The cleric's warning was the latest sign of discontent among conservative Muslims in Pakistan amid a widening government campaign of reward offers, arrests, and growing military force against extremists.

Several extremist groups in this nation of 147 million were angered by the decision last year of President Gen. Pervez Musharraf to back the U.S.-led war on terror.

More than 3,000 troops are conducting house-to-house searches, helicopter flyovers and roadside checks in the Waziristan tribal region in a hunt for about 40 al-Qaida fugitives who attacked a Pakistani army unit last Wednesday, killing 10, including a major and a captain.

Two suspected al-Qaida fighters were killed and one teenager was captured in the gunbattle near the border village of Wana, 190 miles west of Islamabad.

Interior Minister Moinuddin Haider said Monday that security forces arrested seven foreign al-Qaida operatives in the area. Soldiers said over the weekend they detained 20 suspected al-Qaida fighters there.

But Rehman said no al-Qaida fighters are in the tribal belt, where residents often voice support for Afghanistan's ousted Taliban regime and occasionally refer to the U.S. and allied troops as ``the enemy.''

Rehman's group is strong in the tribal belt. His party espouses a philosophy similar to that of Afghanistan's defeated Taliban regime.

U.S. officials have said no American troops are directly participating in the search in Pakistan but are scouring the Afghan side of the border.

American officials have said up to 1,000 al-Qaida and Taliban fighters may be on both sides of the border.

But Musharraf said Monday that al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden is not in Pakistan.

``I can't say for sure whether he is dead or alive,'' Musharraf told reporters. ``One thing I am certain about is that he can't be in Pakistan.''

He said bin Laden would travel with a large group of supporters that would be easy to spot.

``He cannot be hiding in one small corner of Pakistan,'' he said. ``Remaining there without being found is almost impossible.''

Pakistani police are also waging a crackdown on violent extremist groups nationwide.

They have arrested dozens of people in the kidnapping and killing of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl and two bombings in the southern city of Karachi: the June 14 bombing of the U.S. Consulate, which killed 12 Pakistanis; and the May 8 car bombing outside a Karachi, which killed 11 French engineers and three other people, including the bomber.

[vannrox]

[swarthyguy]

The balochistan post has an article about the tribal areas in balochistan rebelling against the pakistani army too.

Also, the southern state, Sindh, has had mullah's trying to inflame the population into jihad.

[Dog Gone]

I think this is a really good sign. We want these guys screaming at Musharraf because it means that they're finally starting to feel the effects of a crackdown. We don't want it to rise to the point where it's a civil war, but these people need their world changed.

For too long, Pakistan has allowed the tribal areas to remain outside the control of the central government. That can't continue. It's time to see if Pakistan can be civilized.

[swarthyguy]

Even the British left these areas alone. A civilised Pakistan would allow the economies of the entire subcontinent to flourish.

[A. Pole]

For too long, Pakistan has allowed the tribal areas to remain outside the control of the central government. That can't continue. It's time to see if Pakistan can be civilized.

We cannot civilise the barbarians living in our cities, how are you going to "civilize" all those tribes? By droping some bombs and proclaiming the victory on CNN?

[Dog Gone]

I haven't read too much about the formal structure of these tribal areas, but what I have read indicates that they are areas of limited jurisdiction for the government, something rather like our own Indian reservations, except that they are far worse. It's something out of Mad Max and/or the Star Wars cantina scenes.

Pakistan has a large army. It can move it into those areas and seize control. That's probably unconstitutional under Pakistani law, but so are military coups.

[Dog Gone]

You assume wrong, at least in my case. I want Islamic fundamentalists dead, and I want governments that sponsor them destroyed.

But I have no quarrel with Turkey, and I'm grateful that Qatar is welcoming us to use their country to attack Saddam. I appreciate Bahrain letting us use their country for our Navy. Jordan is very friendly toward us.

I want all the muslim countries to be like them and join the civilized world. It's not impossible.

[SauronOfMordor]

We cannot civilise the barbarians living in our cities, how are you going to "civilize" all those tribes? By droping some bombs and proclaiming the victory on CNN?

The Carthage approach might work.

[swarthyguy]

You caught me out in my moderate phase.

I am definitely in the Nuke Mecca first crowd. But our strategy does not seem to involve overwhelming power against the jihadis but instead a divide and rule strategy.

I also feel that Pakistan's internal contradictions will result in a civil war sooner or later.

Eliminate Saudi Arabia and the main threat goes away.

My first choice is for Pakistan to disappear and be absorbed into India, aka the old British Raj reconstituted.

Second choice is an Economic Free trade zone on the subcontinent, with decreasing importance of British drawn borders.

Last, i've come to the conclusion that any future renaissance in islam will come from the indian subcontinent and not from arabia. The Deobandi and Barelvi schools of thought, initially tolerant, have turned nasty in the past 50 years or so. Reform may put them back on the straight and narrow. THe large population of muslims in india, a significant minority of which are modern, secular types can prove to be an example to the rest of the islamic world, starting with pakistan.

[Free the USA]

Bump

[A. Pole]

The Carthage approach might work.

Carthage was a civilised city based on commerce, more like a New York. Rome at that time was militarised city republic based on agriculture. One could destroy the another.

But you cannot destroy warlike tribes spread over a large area without the mass settlement of militant colonists. Western core populations are shrinking and the demografic expansion is in favor the other side.

American Indians in future USA were a special case, their economical base was much more primitive than the Muslim tribes and their population density was small. They got defeated by the exploding white population with many children.

[swarthyguy]

You left out Oman, in the NorthEast of the Arabian Peninsula. Certainly the most pro-western of the lot, it's major city, Muscat is an old trading port. Some of the first muslims to embark in india (swPakistan now) came by sea as traders and merchants, in the 7th century. piggybacking on already established trade routes.

Oman has a culture of seafaring and trade, and is historically not very enamored of the Saudis but peaceful. The British Army even fought an insurgency here in the 60's and possibly into the 70's. Unsure if there were islamic elements in the rebellion.