Replies

There wasn't any particular FReeping going on, but due to the subject matter I thought you might all be interested.

I did talk to one woman whose daughter was concerned that she wouldn't be able to get a recognized home school diploma under the new law. I told the girl (maybe 14?) that I was over 40 years old, and I had only been asked to produce my high-school diploma once in the 24 years since I graduated - when I submitted the paperwork to home school my children in PA. I told her colleges won't care about a diploma. They will care about SAT scores and the transcript. Unless someone at the college personally knows the high school, the HS diploma isn't worth squat. We just have to keep educating them here in PA.

Shalom.

Please add your observations.

Shalom.

Good job ArGee. Thanks for keeping us informed. A Freeper on the scene is better than a reporter any day!

School is dead. Learn in freedom.

I'm currently putting together my PA homeschool portfolios for my kids. It consumes about a man-day every year, that I could spend on other things, and does not accomplish anything productive IMHO.

Excellent report ArGee. Very Concise.

Here in PA we have to submit a notarized affidavit every year saying that we will comply with the home schooling law. One woman wanted to know why that wasn't enough? She asked, "Why do we then have to submit all this proof that we are complying with the law. They are assuming we are liars."

This woman makes an excellent point.

Thank you very much for this report. Great job! I am in Philly and was not able to attend but I was very curious to hear how it went. Sounds like it went well.

The whiney guy you spoke of has a website. You are right about him. He is using scare tactics on his site to try to convince homeschoolers that this is a bad law. The bottom line is that he is trying to save his business. BTW, his complaints about the new law have been completed discredited by HSLDA.

My family attended also -- husband, myself and our two teenage children. I took extensive notes, but will try not to bore everyone with too much information....
Here goes...

Attendance--I thought it was over 1,000 people, one of the legislators mentioned 1,200 towards the end of the meeting.

Red definitely outnumbered blue, red was a great choice, bright colors really grab the eye, while the "blues" blended in, esp. since the seating was blue.

Speakers--
First Session

Jess Stairs (Education Committee Chairman)-- general welcome, intro of committee/panel members
Rep. Sam Rohrer (Sponsor of the Bill and homeschooling father) -- gave a little info. about the 1988 H.E. Bill and the new Proposal
Carol Saylor (Manheim Central SD Superintendent) -- supports and recognizes high achievement of home education/homeschoolers but wants to keep the current standards and requirements, wants to have accountability, due to "concerns" about lack of protection for children (mentioned immunizations, no testing or review under proposal, no knowledge of "felony" charges for home educating parents, etc.)
Idetta Groff (School Board Member/Lancaster Area) -- mentioned the high homeschool numbers in her area (Amish/Mennonite population) and the fact that the children seem to do well, but also wants to keep the accountability because it is the State's responsibility to provide for an educated citizenry
Chris Glicka (Home School Legal Defense Association)-- Freedom !! eliminate burdensome laws, he listed the unfair & arbitrary requirements by many school districts that are outside and above the law. Also said that HSLDA deals with many more cases of District problems and abuses in PA than in other states. Regulations do not make better students, parents have a fundamental (Supreme Court upheld) right (14th Amendment) to educate (or direct the education of) their children as they see fit
Brian Ray (NHERI-research & stats, was also a public/private teacher) -- homeschoolers proven to have high academic and social achievement, this success is NOT tied to the amount of state regualtion. No cause and effect can be proven between high regulation and high achievement of HS'ers, however the less regulation an district has over the HS'ers in their district, the BETTER their own PS students perform

There were then some questions by the committee members -(I have notes on these if anyone has specific concerns I can let you know if they were addressed)

Second Session

Maryalice Newborn (PHEN) -- PHEN is the oldest support group in PA. They feel the proposed Bill upholds court findings regarding parental rights (and that they supersede governmental/state concerns).Took a survey and of reported Districts (~20% of total SD's), 92% exceed the law in requirements for HS'ing families. Only .09% of HS'ing families are found to have given/be giving an improper or inadequate education, at a great cost to districts. HB2560 will save state education money. People are moving from or refusing to move to PA because of the rigid HE law (she had 60+ confirming letters attached)
Ellen Kramer (Catholic Homeschoolers of PA)-- present law is ambiguous and burdensome, and leads to abuse/ignorance by districts. ALL diplomas should be equally recognized (including parent-issued), Some kids are denied State Grant money for college, they cannot get the SD to sign a certificate EVEN thought they have fully complied with the law and their HE program has been approved after each year in high school
Carol Lugg (North Central PA HS'ers)-- felt the law was fine, did not mind having to comply with the regulations (alltho' she did admit she would not mind if a few "hoops" were removed). Said she spent less than $400 a year per child (*note* this is a LOT of money to a low-income family, esp. if they have a large family--the woman next to me had SEVEN children, all close in age...that adds up to quite a bundle of cash, eh??). Carol uses a diploma program (I believe it is Richman's) and felt these programs offered accountability and maintained high standards, resulting in the high regard towards PA HS'ers.
Howard Richman (PA Homeschoolers, PHAA)-- runs a family business that "helps" homeschooling families. Offers (for "moderate" fees) "recognized" (NOT accredited) diplomas, evaluations, testing, sells booklets/materials to families on how to comply with the PA law (booklets that recommend overcompliance). Howard is a former educator and part of the original committee that came up with the current PA Home Ed. law (which he "surprise !" just happens to make a living from). I was a bit "irritated" by his satements which came across as a complete lack of trust in the ability and integrity of home educating parents and implicated that the only reason HS'ers in PA do so well is because they are held accountable and FORCED to, otherwise we'd all be too "busy". Howard seemed terrified (and a bit angry) that the proposed law would eliminate diploma programs and would lead to a downfall in standards of HS'ed students in PA. He recounted a meeting in which he was told that his diplomas would be protected/included in the new law, and was upset when this offer was removed (I was later told, by more than one person who were in attendance at the above mentioned meeting, that this was not true, Mr. Richman has refused from the get-go to agree to any Bill that did not conform to his strict desires and has refused any offer of compromise-- he will not acknowledge the worth of a parent-issued diploma). Mr. Richman proposed keeping the current Bill as is, but allowing a new "alternative" law for others who do not use a diploma program (implication is that this second choice would be "substandard" to his diploma program).
Bruce Eagleson (CHAP) -- the present law is complex and difficult to interpret, Districts enforce the law in an uneven, and often, unfair manner. HS'ers are known to be successful, devoted and diligent, but waste money and time in order to comply with a law that is not proven to raise performance, this $ and time is better spent on the HS'ed children within the families.
Edi Thomas (Erie Co. Homeschoolers) -- also runs a diploma program but supports the new Bill. Feels many parents would still choose to use a diploma program and yearly evaluators, and this would be allowed and recognized under the proposal. She was not threatened by the new Bill and welcomed the freedom.

A few personal notes...meeting was informative & did not drag (too much). The kids in attendance were absolutely wonderful -- the 10 or 12 little ones near me were well-behaved and very quiet. The HSLDA guy was a bit long-winded but I could tell he was trying to get alot of information out in such a short time. The committee members asked some interesting questions, alltho' the guy asking about "religiously backed racism" made no sense. There was one woman legislator who had socialist leanings, she was very concerned about "state responsibility" in education. You could feel a bit of tension in the later session, esp. during Mr. Richman's statement, and at the end when he was visibly angry at a comment made by Maryalice Newborn (regarding "purchased" diplomas). Great comments by Rep. Bob Bastian, who has HS'ed grandkids) and by Rep. Paul Clymer (HS'ed teens rarely have drug/alcohol problems, are registering to vote & involved in gov't/society, and have a moral upbringing to care for others, along with strong family units/involved parents). On that note... Almost everyone had to admit that involved parents make for better students and one-on-one learning was the best, esp. for special needs children. Parental education level mattered very little in HS'ed children's achievement. I think the legislators were very favorably impressed by the large turnout and by the enthusiasm and passion that was evident in the audience. Special Needs was brought up a few times...there is an amendment to the Bill already in the works concerning these children.

For those who have cable and PCN...the meeting will be broadcast later tonight and I think tomorrow also---their website is PCN

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Thank you Registered!

thanks for the excellent report. I'll pass it along to my sister, who teaches her 6-year-old using the Pa. virtual charter school program (any of you other Pa. homeschoolers familiar with it?)

Best wishes to all of you homeschooling in PA. I hope everything works out for you.

Across the bridge in NJ, we can homeschool to our heart's content. I only had one problem with an idiotic principal who thought he'd try to intimidate me by threatening truancy charges. Fortunately, the law is on our side here.

Regarding the "religious racism" remark: So far we have found that to be untrue. IMHO, there's more racism in public schools.

Thank you for putting this meeting synopsis up in this forum. I am a new poster so forgive my mistakes.

The HB2560 Hearing was fantastic. If this bill goes no where, the legislature of PA now know how committed we, the homeschooling community are in this matter.

The Forum building in HBG holds 1700.. I believe that there were between 1300 and 1500 people there. The audience although empassioned were quite well behaved and overwhemlingly of the red team. -The blue team should have picked another color, they just blended in with the seats!-

All the posts about the panelists and legislators are true to form, including the whining from Mr. (excuse me DR) Richmond. Seeing a grown man whine/cry over loss of his business is sad to see. And then to see him turn on a fellowhomeschooler (Maryalice N.) over a broad comment about buying diplomas, because he took it personally.. It would take class to say "that may be true of others, but not our program", alas he lacked class.

Now if we can move some of the minds of the legislators from "public school" mantra to the "freedom" mindset of homeschoolers and homeschooling. We are a very different breed of folk.

Kay in Carlisle