Posted on 04/13/2002 8:14:33 AM PDT by joan
Mladen Pandurevic, vice-president of the Serb Civic Council (SGV) is one of the rare Sarajevans who have from the start of the war drawn attention to the crimes taking place in the city, especially those committed by Caco and his soldiers from the Tenth Mountain Brigade. The way in which Pandurevic spoke about the crimes and the people who had committed was precise but, at the time, it was in someone's interest to keep quiet about these events. Today, Mladen Pandurevic has repeated many of the old accusations but now they have somewhat different significance.
Several times, we tried to draw attention to events which were taking place in Sarajevo, not to make parallels with the events taking place in the other entity but simply to tell to the public that extremely difficult events had taken place here as well, and that our fellow Serbs were in the most difficult situation, especially in the Sarajevo region. Several months after the reintegration of Sarajevo a press conference was held. It was organized by the then Sarajevo Police chief, and the minister of Police, Ismet Dahic. Mr. Zarko Bulic, vice-president of the SGV, and I were invited as the representatives of the SGV. We were not aware that we would attend a press conference; officially we were invited to a meeting with the police chief. When we arrived, we realized that other people were present including about ten journalists. Soon after the start of the press conference, it became clear that it was an attempt to discredit the two of us personally and the SGV in general. Someone even asked, I remember well, whose interests we were trying to protect and what was our policy anyway. We left that press conference. In itself, it is not that important, but it is a good illustration of the attitude of the authorities with respect to the crimes against Serb civilians in Sarajevo. The authorities, if I can say so, pretended not to know which crimes we were talking about and tried to minimize their significance. A good part of the media also supported such policy.
According to your documentation, how many citizens of Serb nationality were killed in the Sarajevo region during the war?
According to our documentation, about 460 Serbs were killed in different parts of Sarajevo, including the outer suburbs Hrasnica, Tarcin, Pazaric etc. However, based on the number of the uninvestigated [mass graves] (these data are confirmed by the individuals close to the authorities and foreign organizations active in this field) the actual number is three times higher, at least 1,500. There are estimates that the actual number of victims is as high as 3,000. However, based on our knowledge, we cannot claim that this number is not correct, but neither do we have the data to back up this figure.
Some of these crimes took place at the location "Kazani" and Svijet has recently written about them. There are claims that the number of people killed at that locality is much higher than the current official figure. What do you know about that?
"Kazani" refers to the crimes committed by certain members of the Tenth Mountain Brigade led by their commander Musan Topalovic Caco. Unfortunately, "Kazani" is only one of the places where the corpses of the murdered people were hidden, if I can use that expression. Some of them were not Serbs, but 99 percent of them were. According to the information available to us, all together 30 corpses were found in "Kazani". Actually, 30 heads and 29 bodies. All the corpses were decapitated. However, murders occurred elsewhere as well. Nevertheless, I don't know why, the investigation focused only on the bodies found in "Kazani" and there was no desire to investigate some other locations on the territory covered by the Tenth Mountain Brigade although there are indications that bodies of other victims were buried there.
Besides the infamous "Kazani" during the war corpses of the victims had been found in other parts of the city: in gutters, on the Trebevic bypass road, on the road to Pale, in Velesici, Pofalici, Brijesce, Buljakov Potok, Hrasno Brdo, Dobrinja... It is very important to mention that private prisons in which, according to certain evidence, murders of Serbs had taken place, were never investigated. As an example, I would like to mention prison "Stela" in Novi Grad, prison "Sunce" in Dobrinja, prison run by the then Fourth Motorized Brigade in Hrasnica, camp "Silos" in Tarcin and some other places.
Are you saying that the legal authorities knew about all these crimes, and didn't do anything to prevent them. What do you base these claims on?!
Both the authorities and representatives of the international organizations knew well about the above mentioned localities as well as the other ones. As far as "Silos" in concerned we know for sure that 30 Serbs aged between 14 and 86 were murdered there during the existence of the prison. We obtained these data from Serbs who remained in that region and people who had been imprisoned in the prison but were later released. He had a really hard time getting any information at all, because we were absolutely unable to reach the camp and all the prisoners left for the Republic of Srpska once the camp was disbanded. What is, in my opinion, characteristic for that camp is that the authorities knew about it from the day it was established, but at the same time both military and civilian authorities claimed that the camp was not under their control. Those claims are rather ridiculous, taking into account that the camp was at first guarded by the police and later by the members of the [Bosnian Army] brigade which fought on the free territory of the Hadzici municipality. Another case is that of the illegal prison run by the Fourth Motorized Brigade in Hrasnica. We have seen written orders to the commander of that unit to disband the prison. Nevertheless, whole six months passed from the date on which those orders had been issued (signed by a member of the Bosnian Presidency) to the date when the prison was actually disbanded. Actually, that prison operated throughout the war. Even when it was disbanded, it would be reactivated soon afterwards. These cases clearly indicate that the top leadership in Bosnia-Hercegovina knew at the time about the existence of such prisons. I also know for sure that certain members of the Bosnian Presidency used their influence to pull some individuals, I know their names, from prison "Stela". That is another proof that the authorities knew about that prison. Also, they knew about the prison "Sunce" in Dobrinja and some other jails which were run by some military, or paramilitary units, for different periods of time.
In connection with your claim that during the war the authorities were aware of the existence of prisons and murders, did anyone show the least amount of initiative, besides already mentioned interventions, to put an end to this practice?
It is very hard to give a definite answer to your question. Probably, certain members of the Presidency or the government, especially those who were not Bosniaks by nationality, tried to do something, and one can argue about whether that was enough or not. The same can be said for the individuals of Bosniak nationality. However, all together, the authorities did almost nothing in order to try and solve these problems; if they did, they did it with long delay when it was too late for many victims. I'd like to draw your attention to another fact: the worst situation in this region was during the first year of war and a part of 1993, until the showdown with Caco and his unit. On the other hand, there is an attempt to blame Caco for all the crimes which happened in that period, which cannot be true; Caco and his soldiers couldn't also commit crimes in Dobrinja, as well as in Hrasnica, as well as in Brijesce, Velasici, Pofalici and the central part of the city.
Lately, there were claims that the evidence of crimes in "Kazani" had been destroyed in the meantime. In that context, do you think that the Hague Tribunal will perhaps reopen the cases against Caco's men?
We in the SGV do not have concrete information about that, but it is interesting that the people who should know about these things have recently spoken about it in public. I'd just mention the example of Mr. Alibabic who was the chief of police in Sarajevo at the beginning of the war. He has on several occasions stated that there had been several actions whose goal was to remove evidence of crimes. I have information that the representatives of the International community and some embassies in Sarajevo, above all American embassy, have on several occasions raised that question and that until now they haven't received a positive reply from our authorities.
I am convinced that the Hague Tribunal will reopen the ["Kazani"] case. The trial in that case, and I can say that as a lawyer, was simply ridiculous. Most of the accused were sentenced for abetting and not informing about a crime. Four of them were sentenced for manslaughter ["plain murder" in original], not even for a murder during a war, although it was easy to conclude that their crimes can only be qualified as war crimes against civilian population. I know for sure that the international institutions have been informed, not only by the SGV and various human rights organizations, but also by some intelligence services which were active in this area. I believe that they've amassed much larger documentation than us. I am convinced that the Hague Tribunal will decide to reopen these cases. I would like to mention that this was only one of the groups which have committed mass crimes against Serbs. The other groups were the members of the former Seventh Mountain Brigade who in 1992 and at the start of 1993 also committed mass murders of Serbs in Hrasno, Hrasno Brdo, Aneks, Mojmilo. They were also not sentenced for crimes against civilian population but have received much harsher sentences than the members of the Tenth Mountain Brigade. After the sentencing, the Bosnian Army sent a memo to the Ministry of Justice and demanded suspended sentences for these people, as could be legally done at the time, because they were allegedly needed at the front. The Ministry of justice rejected that demand, but the very fact that the authorities would demand the release of someone for proven mass murderers because they were supposedly needed as soldiers in the defense of the country, indicates the attitude of certain structures with respect to those crimes.
Could you tell us about some of the crimes you've just mentioned and which are typical because of the number of victims, locations or the brutality of the murders?
Goran Simic was murdered in the Stari Grad municipality at the very beginning of the war, in May 1992. He was murdered in his apartment; it was established that his murderer must have come up to the window, identified Simic and shot at him. Before the war, Simic owned a grocery store. At the beginning of the war he distributed all the food supplies from his store to his neighbors for free. According to the information from the Ministry of Internal affairs [Police] his murderer has been identified; however, he is still free. At the end of June 1992, seven corpses were found near restaurant "Bazeni" in Bembasa; five of the victims were men, two women. Some of them were elderly, some were identified, others weren't. At the beginning of May 1992 at least seven corpses in state of advanced decomposition were found between Kosevo stadium and the maternity hospital; four corpses were found at the end of June; later, some of them were identified, for example Jovan Sekerovic. In July, corpses were found on the so called highway "Gaj", in Duro Dakovic street and next to the cemetery. Typical cases were murders of the five members of the Risovic family in Gornji Velesici and three members of the Odovic family in November 1992. The three corpses were found at completely different locations. The murderers were later identified. They confessed to the police and gave a detailed description of the crime; we found out that the murderers even gave the accurate description of the furniture, where the victims were sitting, said that the TV was on etc. Hence, one must believe that they either committed these murders themselves or were present at the scene of the crime. However, because of the legal limitations these confessions cannot be used at the trial since the investigative magistrate was not present during the interrogation at this stage of the investigation and for some reason the Police failed to obtain any material evidence; consequently, once the defense attorneys entered the procedure, the defendants retracted their earlier confessions and were acquitted. Some were later decorated with the highest military decoration "Golden Lily". Murders also took place in the central part of the city; for example in January 1993, Danica Savic and Jela Tanaskovic, both aged over 80 years, were killed with two bullets to the head in Simo Milutinovic street. The murder of Branko Nikolic was especially brutal. He was found in his house in April 1993, tied to a chair; his throat was cut and he had knife wounds on his body. Really, there were a lot of similar cases. The cases I've just mentioned are only an illustration.
Did similar crimes happen in other parts of Bosnia-Hercegovina?
Such cases also took place in Gorazde, Teslic, Konjic, Visoko and several other places. Apart from these towns, we believe that similar mass murders didn't take place in other parts of Bosnia-Hercegovina. On the other hand I must be honest and state that between 1993 and the end of war, less than five Serbs were killed in Sarajevo. Since the signing of the Dayton Agreement, until today, we have registered twelve murders of Serbs, while the thirteenth case is currently still being checked. Those murders took place in the region of Bihac, Zenica-Doboj canton, and Sarajevo. Namely, in Sarajevo three persons were murdered, all three from the reintegrated territories, helpless old ladies. Some of these cases haven't been solved; for example there were five murders in Tuzla-Podrinje canton after the monstrous crimes against Bosniaks in Srebrenica and after their arrival to that area. Journalist Jadranko Bozanic was killed at that time. His murder has not been solved yet. I am afraid that this is another indication of the attitude of the authorities with respect to such cases. If the authorities were willing to find the murderers, there was enough material evidence to do that. Today, it is very hard to continue investigations in these cases. Even in cases where the murderers were found, as in the murderers which took place in Cekrcici near Visoko, the trial drags on. In this case a group of Bosniak men practically lynched a Serb. The investigation had been started, several individuals had been accused of murder, but the accused have so far refused to show up in court and the hearing is simply being postponed. If someone were willing to arrest these people and bring them to the court, that would have happened by now. On the other hand, if they had taken part in something as horrendous as lynching, I don't understand why they haven't been arrested. A few days ago we received information about alleged murders which took place during the aggression against Bosnia-Hercegovina in Breza or Ilijas. We have received a list with names of the victims and the alleged murderers as well as the place and time when the crimes took place. We will pass that list to the authorities and will demand that they open an investigation into those cases. Allegedly the murders took place in Cemerno on July 10 1992 and the victims were 29 civilians from the families Bunjevac, Damjanovic, Malesevic etc. We will send this list to the police and demand that they open an investigation. Allegedly all eleven murderers still live in the area.
We are deeply convinced that crime and criminals do not have national characteristics. Every crime is a crime regardless of the nationality of the criminal and the victim. We are fully aware that certain members of our nation have committed mass crimes, supposedly in order to protect the interests of the Serb people. From the start we have had the same attitude with respect to all crimes regardless of the nationality of the culprit; we have condemned the crimes against non-Serb population which have been truly monstrous. It is clear that a good part of these crimes were inspired by the behavior of the leaders of the Serb Democratic Party and that they had given orders for these crimes. We cannot claim that the crimes on the territory of the Federation, no matter how massive they may be, were ordered by the authorities. In some cases there are indications which point at such a conclusion but we can still not claim that at this moment. Nevertheless, we are absolutely convinced that the authorities knew about these crimes. If they didn't prevent the crimes, and they were aware of them, then they share responsibility. Most of them say that the crimes were committed by the groups which were out of control etc. However, some of those groups were out of control for far too long. When we raised this issue we didn't indend to start a bidding war with the number of victims. Our goal is that all criminals face justice. We are convinced that the crimes which took place in Sarajevo are a dark spot on the efforts of the large number of Bosnians in the defense of Bosnia-Hercegovina and struggle for the united, democratic, multinational Bosnia-Hercegovina with all characteristics of a modern state. We believe that the settling of accounts with the criminals from the ranks of one's own nation is one of the basic preconditions for the better lives of all of us. I am glad that this chapter has recently been reopened, not under the pressure of Serbs, and honestly hope that similar events will soon happen in the Republic of Srpska and in western Hercegovina [under Croatian control] because any acceptance of crimes is absolutely unacceptable.
Translated on 1/29/98
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.