Ridge comment on pilots out of step

"80% of flight deck crewmembers "are in favor of firearms in the cockpit, and will say that publicly." Another 15% or so are fairly ambivalent, willing to go either way. The final 5%--or less, he said--are opposed. "

I'm sorry but you are in the minority here and from the figures, you're in the minority with your fellow airline flight deck crewmembers.

Your five percent wouldn't be forced to carry. Didn't you hear it would be voluntary? But like so many thing. "I don't want to and I don't want anyone else to do it either." You don't give your fellow pilots much credit for common sense. According to you 95 percent of the pilots are Barney Fife.

I wrote:
If you are a pilot, you might want to re-consider your risk analysis to exclude a knee jerk.

You responded:
Show up at the airport packing your heat jerk...

I was not calling you a "knee jerk", I was alluding to a "knee jerk reaction", i.e. a reflexive and unreasoning response. I'm sorry if you read it that way, I certainly didn't think of you as a jerk.

Look, I fly with pilots and despite what you may think about them, there's a lot of them I wouldn't get in a cockpit with if they were armed. I own several guns, go to the shooting range occasionally and have given some thought to getting my concealed carry permit. I've taken a lot of abuse here because I advocate professional law enforcement do the job they're trained for while I do the job I'm trained for. We just have a difference of opinion about who should be carrying the guns onboard, not that there shouldn't be a gun. I feel a hell of a lot safer with a cop in the back. I can't say how safe I'd feel with my copilot packing heat when I told him his last landing sucked.

BTTT

Well, lets look at it logically. If pilots are armed the hijackers know right where to go to get the weapon, the cockpit or the pilot. Law enforcement isn't identified. As far as anyone else onboard knoows they're just another pax. I'd say the logical conclusion would be that it's safer to lat the Marshalls pack the heat.

Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta, a Cabinet-level holdover from the Clinton administration – which was hostile to gun rights – told the Los Angeles Times Saturday that he, too, didn't think pilots should be armed.

My first question is why do we have a Cabinet-level holdever from the Clinton regime? IMHO a clean sweep should have been made at that level

To the rest of it, I think that the pilots should be armed with lethal and non-lethal devices for protection. I also think that all attendants should be trained in martial arts. Last but not least, I think that citizens with CWP should be allowed to carry on a plane at any time without a hassle. We are sitting ducks up there; why shouldn't we be able to do more to help........

Sounds to me like Ridge is just another PC A$$hole.

I have a friend who is a pilot, ex-military, flew in to NYC from Germany yesterday. He's a hunter, familitar with guns and doesn't want one in the cockpit. I truly feel they know more about it than you or I.

First off, let me say, no offense meant to the military BUT there are many pilots who went into the military only for the training, planning to get out ASAP to get into the airlines. It was their battle plan, so to speak.

Give me a Nam vet or Gulf war vet and then I will listen to their opinion on guns in the cockpit. Maybe I will agree and maybe I won't.

Just because someone is a hunter, are you willing to turn your life over to that person because "he" doesn't want a gun in the cockpit???

Whatever happened to self preservation?

I'm talking about a Nam vet. Fightin' Texas Aggie Nam vet!

If pilots are armed the hijackers know right where to go to get the weapon, the cockpit or the pilot. Law enforcement isn't identified. As far as anyone else onboard knoows they're just another pax. I'd say the logical conclusion would be that it's safer to lat the Marshalls pack the heat.

Not if it's voluntary. It would be like the CCW law. People are allowed to carry, all don't but the bad guys don't know who does and who doesn't. Besides right now there are not Marshalls on all the flights. Which one has them and which doesn't.

If pilots are armed the hijackers know right where to go to get the weapon, the cockpit or the pilot. Law enforcement isn't identified. As far as anyone else onboard knoows they're just another pax.

Hey!! The objective of the hijackers IS the cockpit and/or the pilot! So the pilot loosing the firearm is equivalent to pilot incapacitated by Hijacker. Hijackers gaining the cockpit firearm is equivalent to Hijackers gaining the cockpit. At which point enters the guy with the F-15. It doesn't change the equation! But, Armed Pilot may Shoot Hijacker, whereas Disarmed Pilot wields Crash Axe and hopes the Hijackers are still using Box Cutters. If Air Marshals are included and Air Marshals Fail, almost certainly Hijackers are no longer unarmed.

You must still be debating Armed Pilot Vs Armed Law Enforcement!

Given 5 unarmed Hijackers, 3 Armed Air Marshals, 3 Disarmed Flight Attendents, 2 Disarmed Flight Crew, and 50 Disarmed passengers, I bet I can construct a scenario where at least one Air Marshal has a chance of loosing a Firearm, especially if I use your standards of gun control. At which point all bets are off. D'ya want to be Disarmed Flight Crew at that point?

What makes you think Air Marshals are indistinguishable from Regular Pax? Have you ever played Spot The Fed? Whereas under current anti-profiling rules unarmed Hijackers and Disarmed Passengers are by rule indistinguishable (I hope and pray this is not the actual practice).

Here's the real story: Some pilots seem to feel it would be better if they had an additional redundant Safety Option prior to the point where Guy in F-15 takes charge. This may or may not follow the part where Air Marshals React to Hijack.

Your theory is it is sometimes inconvenient, Law Enforcement is supposed to do the job because all you are ever supposed to do is fly the plane (even if the Hijacker with the Air Marshal's gun tells you to fly at an office building?), and besides, some pilots who are entrusted with critical judgment affecting the lives of hundreds of people can't be trusted with guns, therefore no pilot should be. Also, either Pilots may be Armed or Air Marshals, but not both at the same time.

Answer me truthfully - is this an accurate depiction of your opinion? Don't try and wiggle around the question now!

Also, either Pilots may be Armed or Air Marshals, but not both at the same time.

Oops, either Pilots or Air Marshals may be armed, but not at the same time...Is that what you think?

First off, let me say, no offense meant to the military BUT there are many pilots who went into the military only for the training, planning to get out ASAP to get into the airlines. It was their battle plan, so to speak.

A slight correction SeaDragon. I don't know about all the sevices but in the Marines you are trained and qualify with a weapon no matter what you are going to. My son went into the Marines and wasn't to get out ASAP to go with the airlines. Many of his friends were also long term Marine Pilots. He had 13 years in and only got out when he became a daddy and wanted to spend more time with his children..

As far as guns go, he was raised with guns, taught how to use them and respect them before he ever joined the Marines.

I wonder if the pilots of the aircraft that went into the Twin Towers, the Pentagon and the flight that went down in Penna. wished that they had something more than an ax with them while they were under attack. I wonder if the families of those who died in these attacks would object if the pilots had firearms to protect themselves and their passengers on these flights. I wonder why our government would allow a F-16 to shoot down a fully loaded aircraft and not allow the crew to be able to defend themselves from attack? I wonder why I will not fly on commercial aircraft anymore when I do not feel safe.

"Barney Fife isn't welcome in my cockpit."

...Barney Fife... Isn't he the guy that single handedly arrested super terrorist Tim McVeigh, all alone on a lonely highway out in the middle of nowhere near Perry OK and lived to tell Bill Clinton (Sheriff Andy) about it?

Shazzam!!! He didn't even have Gomer or Guber with him when he done it! Not even Ain't B or Oppie!(Oppie is bald, now!)