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Ridge comment on pilots out of step
WorldNetDaily.com ^ | Wednesday, March 6, 2002 | By Jon Dougherty

Posted on 03/05/2002 11:30:05 PM PST by JohnHuang2

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To: JohnHuang2
"One pilot standing in the door defending the cockpit" is no match for several hijackers, Vincent said.

Doesn't this guy understand the concept of a "choke point"?

21 posted on 03/06/2002 4:30:04 AM PST by steve-b
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To: american_ranger
No deferments for education. No deferments for wealth. No deferments for political connections.

As long as we're making up fantasies, we'll equip them with mithril armor, arm them with phaser rifles, and provide the heavy weapons units with the Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator.

22 posted on 03/06/2002 4:33:47 AM PST by steve-b
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To: Cobra64
Can anyone tell me the real scoop why Bush won't replace Mineta and FAA head Jane Garvey.-no spin
23 posted on 03/06/2002 4:33:49 AM PST by Unicorn
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To: Arkie2
I'm all for beefed up doors and sky marshalls and even Tasers.

You want a device that generates a huge electrical discharge in the cockpit?

If you're a pilot, I'm the King of Spain.

24 posted on 03/06/2002 4:35:44 AM PST by steve-b
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To: steve-b
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25 posted on 03/06/2002 4:45:04 AM PST by grammymoon
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To: american_ranger
Your ideas are great.

I think reinstituting the draft would be good, especially now.

It would prevent things from happening like the pinhead airport screeners who hassled the old man carrying the Medal of Honor he won.

I believe basic training would introduce the various ranks, rates, awards, etc., to the boots.

Plus, it would teach enough of the general population about firearms, so they would not be these odious boogeymen-type devices that they are to libs like Ridge.

"Where will it all end?"

Ridge wouldn't say crazy stuff like that if he were not afraid of inanimate guns himself.

Ridge is not agressive enough to be in this particular bureaucratic position.

Get someone who is not afraid of his own shadow.

At least get someone with the reasoning skills to recognize that a pilot already has hundreds of times the power and responsibility by flying a planeload of passengers, as he does by packing a Chief's S&W .38 special.

Sheesh, it embarrasses me that you have to spell that out to people in this country.

26 posted on 03/06/2002 4:59:18 AM PST by caddie
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To: steve-b
Since United is currently training with the devices and several pilot groups have called for them I assume the safety aspects have been dealt with. I will defer to their expertise. Poof. You're the King of Spain. Have a nice day.
27 posted on 03/06/2002 5:38:00 AM PST by Arkie2
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To: no-s
No scenario I've seen calls for the pilots to carry the firearms on their person. They call for them to be stored in the cockpit and handed off from crew to crew. If you think I'm walking through a terminal with a big iron strapped to my hip you're nuts. The potential for some idiot to take the thing off me is greater than the perceived benefit. Additionally, getting through security with them presents a problem especially when I'm off duty and traveling to and from work and don't tell me to pick it up at the office when I get to work. It doesn't work that way.
28 posted on 03/06/2002 5:42:35 AM PST by Arkie2
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To: Arkie2
I see you've granted me point 2. So you agree pilots are at the sharp end.

You disagree with the premise of cockpit handoffs.

You don't want to walk through the terminal with a big iron swinging from your hip. Are you discounting concealed carry?

You think the potential for some idiot to take the firearm away from you outweighs the perceived benefit of being able to defend yourself and your passengers. Are you suggesting idiots are allowed in the cockpit? Or are you repeating one of the gun-grabber refrains about how you are more likely to be menaced with your own firearm than use it in self-defense?

What problem would you have getting through security? How do you think the police and national guard get through security with firearms?

I don't recall saying anything about keeping your guns at the office.

29 posted on 03/06/2002 6:22:58 AM PST by no-s
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To: no-s
I said the only way it would work is for the weapons to be handed off crew to crew. Getting through security is a nightmare now. Why would I want to make it worse by carrying a firearm? Yes, I believe the potential is high for bad guys to use the weapon against me, my crew and my passengers. Bad guys take guns off cops everyday and use them against them and they're trained law enforcement officers. A lot of pilots walking around out there are "past their prime" and in no shape to get into a wrestling match with anyone. Frankly, I believe the first line of defense in the aircraft is the passengers. Gone are the days when they will sit by meekly while some maniac takes control of the aircraft. I have other means at my disposal to incapacitate bad guys short of shooting them and frankly I prefer them to guns. Yes, I'm suggesting idiots could possibly be allowed in the cockpit and that would be marginally trained crew members in charge of firearms. As for your suggestion about concealed carry, it only applies if no one knows you're armed. If pilots are armed and everyone knows it, it's no longer concealed carry, just out of sight. That wouldn't negate some lunatic from getting it off you though. Cops only have a few places where they carry their firearms, it would be the same for pilots. Anyone knowing you're armed wouldn't have a hard time finding the weapon. In any case, every proposal I've seen says the program is voluntary for the individual. If weapons are allowed I won't carry one and any crewmwember in my cockpit with a firearm will have to give it, or the bullets, to me. Barney Fife isn't welcome in my cockpit.
30 posted on 03/06/2002 6:47:01 AM PST by Arkie2
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To: Kenny Bunk
Why Bush rewarded him with this post after his miserable performance in the election, which clearly cost Bush Pennsylvania, is the real mystery.

Yeah, it is a mystery! I don't have any real answers, but here is what I hope:
1. Bush values personal loyalty, so he keeps Ridge around to maintain this particular reputation (it's a 2-way street).
2. The Office of Homeland Security has no real power anyway, so why get excited about Ridge's demonstrated idiocy?
3. Ridge is a useful 'face' to present to a nervous congress. Less threatening to the Daschle-acolytes than, say, John Ashcroft would be.

31 posted on 03/06/2002 6:47:24 AM PST by Tallguy
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To: JohnHuang2
BTTT
32 posted on 03/06/2002 6:51:13 AM PST by Unicorn
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To: Arkie2
I'm all for beefed up doors and sky marshalls and even Tasers.

Let me get this straight: You want airline pilots equipped with a device that distributes several thousand volts over very short range in the hopes that it will deter/stun an attacker, but your airline makes me turn off my palm pilot before takeoff? Try again!

33 posted on 03/06/2002 6:52:09 AM PST by Tallguy
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To: Tallguy
Re read post 27.
34 posted on 03/06/2002 6:54:50 AM PST by Arkie2
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To: SierraWasp
""Where would it end?" "

Where, indeed!
Why, Tommy, it might 'end' with American citizens having the means of defending themselves against criminal and terrorist attacks.

There now, wasn't that simple?

35 posted on 03/06/2002 6:58:29 AM PST by Redbob
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To: JohnHuang2
We have tranquilizer guns to being down ( don't know how many tons/pounds) of elephant, so what would a logical reason be not to arm our pilots with such a weapon ? One shot of this would immediately imobilize the perpetrator/terrorist, thus, eliminating and damage to the cockpit or plane.
36 posted on 03/06/2002 7:11:05 AM PST by DreamWeaver
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To: arielb
"Ashcroft unprincipled?"

Absolutely. If Ashcroft really had principles, then this conversation would not take place because he would declare all gun laws to be un-Constitutional, and therefore all citizens would armed as a matter of choice.

Ashcroft can talk a good game, but until he refuses, publicly, to enforce these moronic gun laws, he hasn't shown me anything but lies.

37 posted on 03/06/2002 7:27:02 AM PST by wcbtinman
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To: Arkie2
"Just don't ask me to engage in a shootout in the cockpit at 35,000 feet."

Then arm the passengers. Self defense should be an individual responsibility anyway.

I agree, you should be flying the plane.

38 posted on 03/06/2002 7:33:20 AM PST by wcbtinman
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To: JohnHuang2
well, he is a rino...what did you expect?
39 posted on 03/06/2002 7:35:36 AM PST by Bill Davis FR
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To: JohnHuang2
I don't think we want to equip our pilots with firearms," Ridge said. "That doesn't make a lot of sense to me." Asked why, Ridge replied, "Where would it end?"

White House officials, according to USA Today, say they believe Ridge's comments reflect President Bush's point of view, though Bush has never publicly commented on the issue.

Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta, a Cabinet-level holdover from the Clinton administration – which was hostile to gun rights – told the Los Angeles Times Saturday that he, too, didn't think pilots should be armed.

The following is from an airline pilot I know personally.

A really ignorant statement showing that he's made an uniformed decision based on emotion versus facts. He's clearly not researched this very well. You tell me how a pilot will defend the cockpit against a well trained terrorist team with a single shot Taser. The President of Taser International met with us last week. Great product - but they were unable to show me how it would have saved ONE aircraft on September 11th.

40 posted on 03/06/2002 7:38:56 AM PST by Texas Mom
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