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Stanford scientist, after decades of study, concludes: We don't have free will
MSN ^ | 10/17/2023 | Story by Corinne Purtill

Posted on 04/02/2024 5:31:02 AM PDT by Lazamataz

Before epilepsy was understood to be a neurological condition, people believed it was caused by the moon, or by phlegm in the brain. They condemned seizures as evidence of witchcraft or demonic possession, and killed or castrated sufferers to prevent them from passing tainted blood to a new generation.

Today we know epilepsy is a disease. It’s accepted that a person who causes a fatal traffic accident while in the grip of a seizure should not be charged with murder.

That’s good, says Stanford University neurobiologist Robert Sapolsky. That’s progress. But there's still a long way to go.

After more than 40 years studying humans and other primates, Sapolsky has reached the conclusion that all human behavior is as far beyond our conscious control as the convulsions of a seizure, the division of cells or the beating of our hearts.

This means accepting that a man who shoots into a crowd has no more control over his fate than the victims who happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. It means treating drunk drivers who barrel into pedestrians just like drivers who suffer a sudden heart attack and veer out of their lane.

“The world is really screwed up and made much, much more unfair by the fact that we reward people and punish people for things they have no control over,” Sapolsky said. “We’ve got no free will. Stop attributing stuff to us that isn’t there.”

Sapolsky, a MacArthur “genius” grant winner, is aware that this is an out-there position. Most neuroscientists believe humans have at least some degree of free will. So do most philosophers and the general population. Free will is essential to how we see ourselves, fueling the satisfaction of achievement or the shame of failing to do the right thing.

(Excerpt) Read more at msn.com ...


TOPICS: Philosophy
KEYWORDS: freewill; frpottymouths; noclassonfr; philosophynotscience; pseudoscience; robertsapolsky; stanford; watchyourmouth; wtf
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To: Lazamataz

If Democrats always vote party line do they have a free will?


61 posted on 04/02/2024 7:54:50 AM PDT by Dennis M.
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To: Lazamataz

We should not complain—the reptilian aliens who control us have no free will either.

;-)


62 posted on 04/02/2024 7:57:10 AM PDT by cgbg ("Our democracy" = Their Kleptocracy)
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To: z3n

happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
= = =

How can the place and time be considered ‘wrong’?


63 posted on 04/02/2024 8:28:50 AM PDT by Scrambler Bob (Running Rampant, and not endorsing nonsense)
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To: Pontiac

Your conclustions sound like how we treat animals.

Dangerous ones are put down. (Well they used to be, now just relocated, and some fill the adoption centers.)

Some are caged, forever.

Oh, I guess I have seen Pit Bull rehab facilities.

So we aren’t treating animals that way. Maybe we are using free will.


64 posted on 04/02/2024 8:36:17 AM PDT by Scrambler Bob (Running Rampant, and not endorsing nonsense)
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To: Red Badger

As often as I read it.


65 posted on 04/02/2024 8:40:16 AM PDT by Scrambler Bob (Running Rampant, and not endorsing nonsense)
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To: equaviator
Happiness is when you’re finding your thrill on “Blueberry Hill” and the sheriff leans into your window and asks your date if it is of her own free will that she’s there with you and she says yes, and then the cop says to have a wonderful evening and leaves

Been there, done that. It's ESPECIALLY uplifting when you live in a small town, and the sheriff is the fishing buddy of your 16-year-old girlfriend's father!

He didn't tell us to "Have a wonderful evening". He said, "Get dressed and take her home". I was still thrilled.... "Yes sir, Yes sir!"

66 posted on 04/02/2024 8:48:11 AM PDT by SomeCallMeTim (C)
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To: Lazamataz

As with so many of those arguing against free will, their arguments always deal with the situation, the environment, all those things that affect your choices-not whether or not you have a choice. This “scientist” claims that all our physical and mental actions are just simply chemical reactions that we have no control over. What he is doing is saying, we are not responsible for any of our actions-that is where this is leading. Normalizing any kind of activity because we are not in control of it.


67 posted on 04/02/2024 8:51:18 AM PDT by GMThrust
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To: scouter
we do have free will, because if we didn’t, we wouldn’t be able to stop doing that.

Excellent point. I've been carrying on a running debate with an other-wise highly intelligent agnostic.

He admits that scientist don't understand the true nature of "consciousness", but in the next breath tells me we have no ability to control decisions". I roll my eyes and remind him, my entire 42 year career was largely based on my ability to make good decisions. In the last half of that career, while in sales, my job was to help other people make decisions. There is an entire industry built around the process of making decisions. Clearly, we CAN decide to move one way, or another... at will.

For sure, there is much about us that is pre-determined by our biology... but, it's not ALL. Upbringing and experiences influence us too. As do structured rules in society. When the US strengthened penalties against drunk driving, people CHANGED their behavior. Well, at least.. MOST people did. Any who were incapable eventually are removed from society.

So yes, maybe there are a few who are SO ADDICTED, they cannot change. But, they either find a way to change, to confirm to the norm, or they are forcible removed from society.

Experience has shown that most addicts CAN change, but they need help from others to learn how. Practically every successful recovery from addiction that I've seen in my life was facilitated by an increase in religious faith. Those who truly lean on Jesus, find their way out of their pit of misery.

68 posted on 04/02/2024 9:03:59 AM PDT by SomeCallMeTim (C)
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To: SomeCallMeTim
“Who we are and what we do is ultimately the result of factors beyond our control and because of this we are never morally responsible for our actions in the sense that would make us truly deserving of praise and blame, punishment and reward,

Hey numbnut:

"Praise and Blame, punishment and reward" are EXACTLY the ways we train our brains to be moral, and do the right things instead of the wrong things. So, even if your supposition is correct, your conclusion from it is dead wrong.

69 posted on 04/02/2024 9:17:53 AM PDT by SomeCallMeTim (C)
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To: sphinx

I hope you don’t mind if I plagiarize some of your well-stated points in my long-running debate with an intelligent idiot.


70 posted on 04/02/2024 9:47:11 AM PDT by SomeCallMeTim (C)
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To: Lazamataz

Undoubtedly a liberal.🙄


71 posted on 04/02/2024 10:09:25 AM PDT by BiteYourSelf ( Earth first, we'll strip mine the other planets later.)
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To: SomeCallMeTim

A happy enough ending to that story!


72 posted on 04/02/2024 12:56:30 PM PDT by equaviator (If 60 is the new 40, then 35 must be the new 15.)
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