Posted on 03/06/2022 6:03:17 AM PST by FarCenter
World War I had no good guys and no winners. France rightly sought the return of the provinces Germany had annexed in 1870. Russia rightly feared that German influence would sever its industrial centers and tax base in the Western parts of it its empire; England feared that Germany would encroach on its overseas empire; Germany feared that Russia’s railroad system would overcome its advantage in mobility and firepower. None of them wanted a war, but each of them decided that it was better to fight in 1914 than fight later at a disadvantage.
Historian Christopher Clark in his 2013 book The Sleepwalkers forever buried the black legend of German aggression in 1914, with proof from Russian archives that the Czar’s mobilization – with French incitement – provoked the outbreak of war. There’s no hero to cheer, no villain to boo in the first tragedy of the 20th century, just mediocre and small-minded politicians unable to step back from the brink.
All of them acted rationally in the pursuit of their vital interests, but at the same stupidly as well as wickedly, and the ensuing world wars undid the achievements of a thousand years of Western civilization. We look back to 1914 in horror, and wonder how the leaders of the West could have been so pig-headed. Nonetheless, we are doing it again today.
(Excerpt) Read more at asiatimes.com ...
You can't argue period.....you have been indoctrinated....the deep state has been around longer than you know.....but you have to keep believing cause you have nothing else!
Bmfl
Most of the civilian deaths in the Franco-Prussian War were the result of smallpox. The war made the epidemic worse and may even have been responsible for it, but those deaths were an indirect, rather than a direct result of the war. The Crimean War casualties also included many deaths from disease. Maybe that wasn’t unusual back then.
The Prussians may have assumed that the German-speaking residents of Alsace and Lorraine would want to be part of Germany. Putin seems to have expected those Ukrainians who speak Russian as their first language would welcome becoming part of Greater Russia.
“The Prussians may have assumed that the German-speaking residents of Alsace and Lorraine would want to be part of Germany. Putin seems to have expected those Ukrainians who speak Russian as their first language would welcome becoming part of Greater Russia.” [Verginius Rufus, post 84]
Not bad, as an initial approximation.
One ought to recall, though, that Otto von Bismarck pointedly referred to Alsacians and Lorrainians (?) as “Frenchmen” whom he did not want in the Prussian house. The rest of the Prussian establishment - especially the nobility & the military - overrode him in this case.
I am wary of mass-psychology explanations, however. Assumptions that render all human minds exactly the same are suspect on their face. Cultures vary. Nations vary. Environments vary. Families vary. And each one makes a characteristic, unique impact on each individual. After a number of long conversations with embassy attaches, I suspect that other cultures are far more difficult to understand than we believe.
The Prussians did not care how many people in the annexed regions yearned to join Greater Germany (under Prussian domination); the rest of Europe was already aware of how heavy-handed they could be; it caused family squabbles within Queen Victoria’s household.
It’s quite likely the Russians don’t care about the feelings of any Russian speakers in Ukraine; they want the resources and other economic assets. Irredentist sentiments are merely another excuse.
“You can’t argue period.....you have been indoctrinated...the deep state has been around longer than you know.....but you have to keep believing cause you have nothing else!’ [crazy scenario, post 81]
It’s easy, cheap, and convenient to blame everything on a conspiracy. Doesn’t require anything resembling real work - if consulting any actual historical record can be likened to work.
You are free, of course, to believe whatever strikes your fancy; but the firmness & intensity of your belief tells us nothing about the validity of anything you say.
I nearly forgot I wasn’t arguing.
I was merely pointing out incontrovertible details that appear in the archives & records of the organizations extant at the time, and the personal papers of officials who worked in them. No conspiracy could possibly massage such items (drearily mundane & workaday, for the most part) to the point where they conveyed - in a coherent manner - the impression the conspirators would wish to convey.
Which is beside the point.
Can’t help noticing that most forum members who claim to be upset over the behavior of nations before, during, and after the First World War are land animals: they are obsessed with the engagements fought by ground forces during 1914-1918, to the point of ignoring all else. And it is true, unhappily, that the land battles take on the appearance of futility - when viewed in isolation and at the individual level.
When one’s scope and analysis are so superficial and truncated, one’s analysis cannot help but suffer.
I encourage forum members to broaden their horizons, to inform themselves about other aspects of the conflict. Learn about politics, Great Power rivalries, oceangoing trade, naval engagements, air power, aerial photography, electronic communications & countermeasures, and numerous other topics. Much remains to discover, to be learned, and to instruct others about.
No one can really know what lies behind a closed door - until they open it.
YOU show how much the systems indoctrination has worked on an already willing mind. I on the other hand question everything. You live in the sheep world because it's a safe place......your life & security are dependant on not offending your fellow sheep. I'll ask you ONE question!
When the mask mandate became the rule to follow (early 2020) did YOU wear a mask or not? I bet you were scared to death of this BS virus!
I DIDN'T!
I could see early on, this was about control of the sheep! I remember being in a check-out line at a large discount store & everyone around me was masked.....the Karen-man behind me questioned where my mask was (this was at the very beginning of the virus hysteria)......I told him in NO uncertain term, he was a fool to cave to the virus hysteria.....the looks I got from him & the people around him were priceless. I didn't care what they thought of me or how they despised me for not following the sheep directive. I knew I was right
You see I'm not one of your sheep...it know what in see, hear & read....I've spoken with people who were there (people you would look down on because they were on the other side) because YOU'RE a sheep. You've been taught what to think, not your fault, that's the way it is.
Austria-Hungary had the same problem. They annexed Bosnia in 1908 because they thought that was the only way to prevent it from becoming part of Serbia, but some of them (Hungarians mostly, I think) were wary of adding more Slavs to the ethnic mix in the empire.
“Austria-Hungary had the same problem. They annexed Bosnia in 1908 because they thought that was the only way to prevent it from becoming part of Serbia...” [Verginius Rufus, post 88]
Good point.
I must read up on which parts were dragged into the Austrian Empire, when they split off, and when.
Though the Austria-Hungary was looked on as a Great Power, it was a polyglot mess. 30 separate official languages, if I remember right. The only faintly successful national institution was said to be the Austrian Army, and that was somewhat inferior to many other national armies - especially its ally & neighbor, Imperial Germany.
Though it lost much of its capability to launch offensives or resist them, the Austrian military establishment remained operationally proficient and technically competent right to the end. Consider the Twelve Battles of the Isonzo.
Some Germans were not enthusiastic about the Central Powers alliance. At least one official remarked (I forget, to whom) that he doubted the wisdom of Germany tying itself so tightly to a rickety conglomerate that appeared to be cracking in every direction (words are paraphrased).
Now and then I wonder what might have happened at the Versailles peace talks of 1919, if Austria-Hungary had not fragmented, and the Ottoman Empire had not collapsed. With nobody else left to pick on, blame was mostly heaped onto Germany.
“YOU show how much the systems indoctrination has worked on an already willing mind. I on the other hand question everything...did YOU wear a mask or not?...” [crazy scenario, post 89]
In answer to your question, I have worn a mask when various retailers & medical organizations asked me to. I have never been so arrogant as to cross other professionals, when nothing is to be gained by annoying and upsetting them. Parenthetically, I don’t even push limits with business folks nor small-time shopkeepers. I frequent their establishments only at their pleasure, and it’s their privilege to set the rules for their own premises.
But I admit my experience may not have been typical.
I am lucky to live in a largely rural state with a very conservative governor of wise disposition; she treats us as adults, instead of unruly toddlers in need of a time-out. When the panic set in, she allowed every public establishment in the state to use their own judgment in setting masking & social-distancing policies.
For the first five months of 2021, I was bedridden. Then I spent almost two months in hospital, undergoing cancer surgery & treatment. Ever since, I have stayed home (40 miles from the medical facilities) or kept follow-up treatment appointments...nearest neighbors live 100 yards away and more.
Everybody at my hospital still wears masks 100 percent of the time: staff & outpatients alike. Since they saved my life, I am not about to challenge them over such trivia.
Attempts to one-up others on relative levels of indoctrination leads nowhere. If you can take time out from your busy schedule questioning everything, you might give a stray thought to questioning yourself. You know, preconceptions and dogmatic certitudes & such.
I knew it!!! YOU don't cross other professionals because YOU let others do your thinking for you!!!! If you used your inteligentce about viruses then, you would know a virus can pass thru those cloth masks like a golf ball thru a Chainlink fence.
"live in a largely rural state with a very conservative governor of wise disposition; she treats us as adults." Then, you live in South Dakota, right. Do you know where Eureka is?
“...YOU don’t cross other professionals because YOU let others do your thinking for you!!!! If you used your inteligentce about viruses...
...Do you know where Eureka is?” [crazy scenario, post 92]
Clever of you to deduce my state of residence. Despite the media news coverage, I suspect few people outside the area know who Gov Kristi Noem is.
I confess that before reading your post I couldn’t have pinpointed Eureka on the map. I guessed it was in East River. I live south of Rochford in West River, about ten miles west of Hill City and 15 miles east of the Wyoming-South Dakota.
I have overflown Eureka dozens of times. Couldn’t see anything with my own eyeballs, because I was inside various aircraft then in USAF’s inventory. When I was a cadet, Wessington Springs was the far-end anchor for one of our navigation training routes. After I became an active duty aircrewmember, I crisscrossed the wide flat spaces of the High Plains many times.
Most of the territory from the US-Canada border north of Eureka due south to southern Texas is featureless. One small town looks like every other small town on mapping radar. I got lost sometimes.
I don’t have any “knowledge” of virus biology. Not the direct sort, anyway: I learned what I have learned via reading & listening to others.
About 40 years ago, I discovered that clashing with someone over a topic about which I had no direct knowledge would lead to nothing but trouble.
So I have refrained from crossing professionals outside my own area of expertise. Doing so rarely results in success. Making a big fuss destroys all hope of cooperation and typically ends in failure - unless one deems it worthwhile to “win” a contest of wills. Childish behavior, ultimately.
Knowledge outmatches & outlasts belief.
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