FLt-bird:
"Are you kidding? 150 years ago Southern Democrats were the party of limited government, balanced budgets and state's rights." Sure, "limited government" meaning denying African Americans their Federal rights under the 13th, 14th & 15th Amendments.
Sure, "balanced budgets" just like every other state, and the Federal budget was always in balance, allowing reductions in the National Debt by 50% over the 30 years from 1867 to 1897.
Sure, "states rights" meaning the right of Southern states to nullify the 13th, 14th & 15th Amendments, among many other rights they didn't want applied to blacks (1st, 2nd, etc.).
FLt-bird: "Black Codes were what was on the books in the Northern states.
Jim Crow was implemented later and was modeled on the Black Codes."
Sure, there were plenty of Northern Democrats just as racist as any ex-Confederate.
It's one reason Democrats North & South were so quick to get back together again after the Civil War -- they shared a lot of feelings in common.
One way to measure how vigorously such Black Codes (Jim Crow) were enforced would be to add up the number of lynching's:
"According to the Tuskegee Institute, 4,743 people were lynched between 1882 and 1968 in the United States, including 3,446 African Americans and 1,297 whites.
More than 73 percent of lynchings in the post–Civil War period occurred in the Southern states.[10]
According to the Equal Justice Initiative, 4,084 African-Americans were lynched between 1877 and 1950 in the South.[11] "
A curious fact about lynchings is that before the Civil War they were not restricted to any state or region, and nearly all the victims were white.
It's only after the Civil War that lynchings become increasingly concentrated in the South and nearly all those victims were black.
So, post Civil War we have the 13th, 14th & 15th Amendments covering every state, but not enforced in the South.
We also have Black Codes or Jim Crow outside the Deep South, but lynchings against African Americans increasingly restricted to the South.
FLt-bird: "The traitors to the constitution were Lincoln and the Northern Republicans.
That's a total lie, an insane Democrat lie.
FLt-bird: "States are sovereign."
US states were never 100% "sovereign", ever.
FLt-bird: "The union is based on consent."
Sure, mutual consent as happened in 1776 and 1788, but not in 1861.
FLt-bird: "Those were the Democratic Republicans.
The Democrat Party was founded by Andrew Jackson decades later."
Nearly all the people, especially Southerners, who became Jacksonian Democrats had previously been Jeffersonian Democratic-Republicans.
Likewise, nearly all the people, especially Northerners, who became the opposition Whigs had previously been Washington-Adams-Hamilton Federalists.
FLt-bird: "What was the federal government spending most of its budget on?
Aside from national defense which it didn't spend very much on, the vast majority was for infrastructure projects and corporate subsidies.
Most of that spending was directed towards the Northern states even though it was the federal tariff paid overwhelmingly by Southerners which generated the lion's share of all federal revenues.."
All of that is a pack of Democrat lies, the kinds of lies which will rot your brain if you believe any of it.
The truth is vastly different beginning here:
- In the 60 years (1801 - 1860) when Southern Democrats ruled Washington, DC, they spent about $2 billion in total ~$33 million per year, on average.
- Of that, roughly half went to the military, more in wartime, less in peacetime.
- Of the remaining expenditures, far less than $100 million total went to Internal Improvements, what we today call "infrastructure".
Those included fortifications (i.e., Fort Sumter), postal roads, lighthouses and harbors.
- Of the money spent on Internal Improvements, just over half went to Southern states, less than half to Northern & Western states.
So the only possible way the Democrat lie about Federal spending can be true is if by "the North" you mean every state & territory North of South Carolina -- which, of course, is what they did mean.
As for the often repeated claim that nearly all of Federal revenues came from Southern exports -- still another Democrat Big Lie, which we have now flogged at great length & detail on many CW threads.
It begins here: there were no Federal taxes on exports.
Out of time, must stop here. ![]()
Sure, "limited government" meaning denying African Americans their Federal rights under the 13th, 14th & 15th Amendments.uhhh long before those amendments were passed. Jeez, you're really not very good at this are you?Sure, "balanced budgets" just like every other state, and the Federal budget was always in balance, allowing reductions in the National Debt by 50% over the 30 years from 1867 to 1897.
After TRIPLING the tariff rates that were in place before utterly ruining the South's economy in the process....ie the very thing the Southern states seceded to avoid.Sure, "states rights" meaning the right of Southern states to nullify the 13th, 14th & 15th Amendments, among many other rights they didn't want applied to blacks (1st, 2nd, etc.).
Once again you are so ignorant of history you don't grasp the timeline. This was BEFORE those amendments were passed. What they wanted was to be left alone...to not have the federal government USURP all kinds of powers the sovereign states never delegated to it - which it had been doing steadily since it was founded. Sure, there were plenty of Northern Democrats just as racist as any ex-Confederate. It's one reason Democrats North & South were so quick to get back together again after the Civil War -- they shared a lot of feelings in common.
Guess what, it wasn't just Northern Democrats who were racist. Northern Republicans - like Abe Lincoln for example - were flamingly racist.One way to measure how vigorously such Black Codes (Jim Crow) were enforced would be to add up the number of lynching's: "According to the Tuskegee Institute, 4,743 people were lynched between 1882 and 1968 in the United States, including 3,446 African Americans and 1,297 whites. More than 73 percent of lynchings in the post–Civil War period occurred in the Southern states.[10] According to the Equal Justice Initiative, 4,084 African-Americans were lynched between 1877 and 1950 in the South.[11] "
Nobody denies the discrimination both North and South, against Blacks and Native Americans was awful. Should I go into the lynchings, the pogroms etc etc that happened up North? Should I mention the "black codes" adopted by multiple Northern states that had the express purpose of making it impossible for Blacks to live there and driving out the few who were there already. Should I mention the state constitutions that barred blacks from moving to various states? Those things all happened.A curious fact about lynchings is that before the Civil War they were not restricted to any state or region, and nearly all the victims were white. It's only after the Civil War that lynchings become increasingly concentrated in the South and nearly all those victims were black.
LOL! Blacks were not to be found in the North in any numbers until more than a generation after the war. Why? Because Northerners would not allow them to move there.So, post Civil War we have the 13th, 14th & 15th Amendments covering every state, but not enforced in the South. We also have Black Codes or Jim Crow outside the Deep South, but lynchings against African Americans increasingly restricted to the South.
Think Blacks rights were respected up North? LOL!That's a total lie, an insane Democrat lie.
No, its true. Lincoln made war against them (the states) in order to impose a government upon them that they did not consent to - the very definition of treason in the Constitution. US states were never 100% "sovereign", ever.
False. The facts do not agree with you about that. Nor do Madison and Hamilton in the Federalist Papers. Nor did Jefferson, etc etc.Sure, mutual consent as happened in 1776 and 1788, but not in 1861.
Each state is an independent sovereign political community. That is Madison's own description in the federalist papers. Mutuality is not required.Nearly all the people, especially Southerners, who became Jacksonian Democrats had previously been Jeffersonian Democratic-Republicans. Likewise, nearly all the people, especially Northerners, who became the opposition Whigs had previously been Washington-Adams-Hamilton Federalists.
They were different political parties. Get over it.All of that is a pack of Democrat lies, the kinds of lies which will rot your brain if you believe any of it. The truth is vastly different beginning here: In the 60 years (1801 - 1860) when Southern Democrats ruled Washington, DC, they spent about $2 billion in total ~$33 million per year, on average. Of that, roughly half went to the military, more in wartime, less in peacetime. Of the remaining expenditures, far less than $100 million total went to Internal Improvements, what we today call "infrastructure". Those included fortifications (i.e., Fort Sumter), postal roads, lighthouses and harbors. Of the money spent on Internal Improvements, just over half went to Southern states, less than half to Northern & Western states. So the only possible way the Democrat lie about Federal spending can be true is if by "the North" you mean every state & territory North of South Carolina -- which, of course, is what they did mean. As for the often repeated claim that nearly all of Federal revenues came from Southern exports -- still another Democrat Big Lie, which we have now flogged at great length & detail on many CW threads. It begins here: there were no Federal taxes on exports. Out of time, must stop here.
Just more ridiculous lies on your part. Lies which fly in the face of everything Southern, Northern and Foreign newspapers were saying....lies which fly in the face of what politicians and commentators on both sides as well as foreign commentators were saying....lies which fly in the face of what economic and tax experts who examined the period have said.
South Carolina Congressman Robert Barnwell Rhett had estimated that of the $927,000,000 collected in duties between 1791 and 1845, the South had paid $711,200,000, and the North $216,000,000. South Carolina Senator James Hammond had declared that the South paid about $50,000,000 and the North perhaps $20,000,000 of the $70,000,000 raised annually by duties. In expenditure of the national revenues, Hammond thought the North got about $50,000,000 a year, and the South only $20,000,000. When in the Course of Human Events - Charles Adams
the South paid about three-quarters of all federal taxes, most of which were spent in the North." - Charles Adams, "For Good and Evil. The impact of taxes on the course of civilization," 1993, Madison Books, Lanham, USA, pp. 325-327