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To: BroJoeK; FLT-bird; jmacusa; Monterrosa-24; woodpusher

I think an outstanding example on how to show that the democrats and republicans have not changed in over 150 years is taking statements from the two leaders of the civil war but updating it to reflect a current moral difference between the two parties.

Jefferson Davis(Democrat)- “African slavery, as it exists in the United States, is a moral, a social, and a political blessing.”

Abraham Lincoln(Republican)-”If slavery is not wrong, nothing is wrong.”

Now let’s look at those statements through todays biggest moral question.

Jefferson Davis (Democrat)-”Abortion, at it exists in the United States, is a moral, a social, and a political blessing.”

Abraham Lincoln (Republican)- “If abortion is not wrong, nothing is wrong.”

The democrats were morally wrong 150 years ago and they are morally wrong now.


536 posted on 08/04/2020 9:51:44 AM PDT by OIFVeteran
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To: OIFVeteran
I think an outstanding example on how to show that the democrats and republicans have not changed in over 150 years is taking statements from the two leaders of the civil war but updating it to reflect a current moral difference between the two parties. Jefferson Davis(Democrat)- “African slavery, as it exists in the United States, is a moral, a social, and a political blessing.” Abraham Lincoln(Republican)-”If slavery is not wrong, nothing is wrong.” Now let’s look at those statements through todays biggest moral question. Jefferson Davis (Democrat)-”Abortion, at it exists in the United States, is a moral, a social, and a political blessing.” Abraham Lincoln (Republican)- “If abortion is not wrong, nothing is wrong.” The democrats were morally wrong 150 years ago and they are morally wrong now.

Ridiculous. The parties have both changed dramatically - as has America - as has the world in 150 years. 150 years ago Southern Democrats were the party of small government, balanced budgets and decentralized power. Alexander Stephens, often quoted for his Cornerstone Speech is rarely quoted for this: "If centralism is ultimately to prevail; if our entire system of free Institutions as established by our common ancestors is to be subverted, and an Empire is to be established in their stead; if that is to be the last scene of the great tragic drama now being enacted: then, be assured, that we of the South will be acquitted, not only in our own consciences, but in the judgment of mankind, of all responsibility for so terrible a catastrophe, and from all guilt of so great a crime against humanity." -Alexander Stephens He was hardly the only one. “Every man should endeavor to understand the meaning of subjugation before it is too late… It means the history of this heroic struggle will be written by the enemy; that our youth will be trained by Northern schoolteachers; will learn from Northern school books their version of the war; will be impressed by the influences of history and education to regard our gallant dead as traitors, and our maimed veterans as fit objects for derision… It is said slavery is all we are fighting for, and if we give it up we give up all. Even if this were true, which we deny, slavery is not all our enemies are fighting for. It is merely the pretense to establish sectional superiority and a MORE CENTRALIZED FORM OF GOVERNMENT AND TO DEPRIVE US OF OUR RIGHTS AND LIBERTIES.” Maj. General Patrick R. Cleburne, CSA, January 1864 Lee reflected similar sentiments "I yet believe that the maintenance of the rights and authority reserved to the states and to the people, not only essential to the adjustment and balance of the general system, but the safeguard to the continuance of a free government. I consider it as the chief source of stability to our political system, whereas the consolidation of the states into one vast republic, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of that ruin which has overwhelmed all those that have preceded it." Robert E. Lee in a letter to Lord Acton Davis expressed similar ideas in his 2nd inaugural "The people of the Southern States, whose almost exclusive occupation was agriculture, early perceived a tendency in the Northern States to render the common government subservient to their own purposes by imposing burdens on commerce as a protection to their manufacturing and shipping interests. Long and angry controversies grew out of these attempts, often successful, to benefit one section of the country at the expense of the other. And the danger of disruption arising from this cause was enhanced by the fact that the Northern population was increasing, by immigration and other causes, in a greater ratio than the population of the South. By degrees, as the Northern States gained preponderance in the National Congress, self-interest taught their people to yield ready assent to any plausible advocacy of their right as a majority to govern the minority without control." Jefferson Davis Address to the Confederate Congress April 29, 1861 The Republicans of 160 years ago were a party of centralized power....of crony capitalism with big business in bed with government and getting massive subsidies from government, of federal deficits and debts. The Jeffersonian Democrats who were overwhelmingly Southern dominated the Democrat party. They wanted decentralized power, limited government, balanced budgets and no corporate welfare. The regions did not change much in their political values. The parties did. New England still wants centralized power (hell, now they want global government rather than merely national). They still want massive government spending. The South still wants limited government and states' rights. The Democrats now dominate the Northeast and advocate what they want. The Republicans now dominate the South and advocate what Southerners have traditionally wanted.

537 posted on 08/04/2020 10:15:09 AM PDT by FLT-bird
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To: OIFVeteran; DoodleDawg; woodpusher; Brass Lamp; DiogenesLamp; rustbucket; central_va; FLT-bird; ...
“I think an outstanding example on how to show that the democrats and republicans have not changed in over 150 years is taking statements from the two leaders of the civil war but updating it to reflect a current moral difference between the two parties. . . “

While we are summoning quotes at random:

“I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.” - Abraham Lincoln, circa 1858

Juxtapose this:

“But, upon the other hand, if it is not proven to your satisfaction that he is guilty, then the law and justice both concur in the demand for his acquittal. It is true that the prisoner is of the African race and a slave, but, so far as this trial is concerned, he has the same rights as a white man. All the rules of law which would apply to a white man, if put upon his trial for the crime of rape, must apply in this case. The laws of this State affix the death penalty to the crime of rape, whether it be committed by a freeman or a slave, and the evidence which has been placed before you has been brought to the test of the same legal principles and submitted to you under the same rules of evidence as would be invoked and applied if a white man were upon his trial.” - Charles Dupont, Chief Justice Florida Supreme Court writing for the Court in 1860 to order a new trial in “Cato”

549 posted on 08/05/2020 9:25:46 AM PDT by jeffersondem
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