Posted on 03/01/2019 12:54:34 PM PST by DoodleDawg
Sory folks, it’s called diplomacy. Maybe it will mean that there won’t be a repeat of your son’s unfortunate fate.
Let them go cry me a river to Obama who did nothing. They got to pull the plug when they choose, said goodbye and got to bury him. That’s more then some.
Otto was 22.
Very true.
Even at 21, a normal human with a modicum of common sense would know NK is a brutal communist hellhole.
But leftists are not normal, not human and certainly not intellectual.
Stopping a nuclear war is vastly more important than the feelings of a family whose son did unbelievably idiotic things on Obama’s watch.
What are you talking about.they pulled the plug on him about 5 days after he left the plane.
As I see it, the kid’s dead now, so why should Trump waste political capital on him - the kid is not going to come back to life, no matter what Trump does.
If he were alive, that would be different, and would have to be addressed more seriously...but not the case now.
Helpful post. Maybe he got botulism from food.
Took my dad 9 days in hospice to die without food or water. His choice.
What a World,,,
It’s called;
Situational Awareness.
Heard of it?
Thank you mr. President.
Remember midnight express.
So true! I took a stroll around a place called "The Compound" while in a city in Turkey. This place was filled with women who had committed some crime but not so bad that they had to die in a Turkish prison. I'm sure everyone remembers "Midnight Express". These ladies had a second choice; work as a prostitute in The Compound. Given those two choices; I'm not sure which one I would have chosen but the ladies didn't look underfed. I don't know how much freedom of movement they had but I'm sure if they tried to leave without permission they would have been thrown in the regular prison or even executed. This was during the 70's and while much of Turkey was far more westernized; they still had the same harsh laws on the books. I think this is why their cities were relatively safe at the time.
My point is any young stubborn man who felt unjustly imprisoned might cop an attitude. In an American prison he might get some kind of punishment but not usually a beat down or other physical punishment. This isn't the deep south of 50's. Otto might have done something a group of other prisoners had to pay for in some way (less food for instance) so they might have messed him up. We will likely never know. He's dead and that's that.
It was a drinking boondoggle on the way to his destination in Hong kong.
Otto called Daddy BEFORE he entered North Korea - to share his plans - and DADDY gave his blessings. If Daddy was too ignorant, weak, careless, obtuse, and/or stupid to not say “OH HELL NO!” to Otto, then he can just shut the hell up, now.
actually i agree. he may have shown his ass to a guard, and the guard shut him up.
I am a parent. I have a son around otto’s age. He has done some if the stupidest things. I wept when I saw Otto leaving the plane. His dad said his feet and hands were twisted and teeth in wrong position. But you don’t go drinking stealing in NK. Unfortunately actions have consequences.
I must correct myself. We had no diplomatic relations, no embassy or consulates, and had no transportation into North Korea when Otto went, but not a prohibition from the US side on citizens going there:
“The Swedish Embassy in Pyongyang operates as a conduit between the U.S. and North Korea, which do not maintain diplomatic relations.
Up to now, the U.S. policy has been that it “strongly recommends against all travel by U.S. citizens to North Korea.””
“Otto was 22.”
Otto made a conscious decision, as an adult, to visit a country ruled by a brutal dictator. That country is known as being repressive and cruel to its own citizens. Any intelligent 22 year old should have known there were risks to entering a country where western standards of law did not apply. If he read any of the US State Department materials about going abroad he would also have been aware that US legal protections do not apply in foreign countries and the State department is essentially helpless if the US citizen violates a law in the foreign nation.
Otto also chose to steal a banner. Stealing is a crime in the United States, a fact he should have been aware of. If he was taught any values and morals by his parents and teachers he should have known stealing was wrong. Yet he chose to commit what was a crime in his own country and he should have presumed was a crime in the foreign nation.
Otto got caught committing a crime. The North Korean state took action to imprison and punish him. During his imprisonment something happened to him which resulted in his death. Prisoners also die in US jails at the hands of guards and fellow prisoners so there is also risk to being arrested and sent to jail in the United States. Whether or not the situation resulting in Ottos death was ordered by Kim is not known. Neither Trump nor Otto’s parents have any direct or conclusive knowledge.
Otto’s parens are complicit in thwarting efforts to understand if Otto’s death was at the hands of the North Korean government or if he died from natural causes. They refused to allow an autopsy of the body. They want the President of the US to condemn the President of North Korea but they refuse to take action that would help determine if their suspicions about the Korean government are true.
The treatment of Otto may have been cruel, immoral and wrong by US standards or international standards. It matters not. Otto chose to take a risk in going to North Korea. He chose to poke the snake by stealing. He reaped the consequences of his actions.
I traveled extensively in dangerous third world countries for one of my employers. I knew there was a risk I could be kidnapped and killed. I also knew my company had a policy of not paying ransom . If I was kidnapped and held for ransom when the company refused to pay ransom I would likely be killed. I was knew I could be falsely accused of a crime by corrupt officials in one of the countries I visited and convicted in a court resulting in a long prison term or even death at the hands of the government. Fully understanding the risk and the consequences I chose to pursue my career with the company for two decades. Had I been kidnapped and killed, or falsely charged and imprisoned by corrupt officials, I would not have expected my company or the US government to be responsible for my situation. I accept accountability for choices I make.
The Otto controversy is another public example of people being unwilling to accept the consequences of an individual’s decision when those consequences are ugly. The great America of the past was a country where adults accepted personal responsibility and accountability for their actions. Today’s American is a land where people avoid accountability and blame others the consequences of decisions they made. Until our values change, we will continue to decline as a nation.
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