Posted on 04/26/2017 3:45:22 PM PDT by BackRoads775
A Beaverton man who has a bachelor of science degree in engineering and has repeatedly challenged Oregon's timing of yellow traffic lights as too short was investigated by a state board for "unlicensed practice of engineering'' and fined $500.
Now, Mats Järlström has joined with the national Institute for Justice to file a federal civil rights lawsuit against members of the Oregon State Board of Examiners for Engineering and Land Surveying.
(Excerpt) Read more at oregonlive.com ...
He contends state law and the board's actions that disallow anyone from using the word "engineer" if they're not an Oregon-licensed professional engineer amount to an "unconstitutional ban on mathematical debate."
This type of language is very common in state laws and regulations that govern licensed professionals. I know some professionals who won't even hand out a business card in a state where they are not licensed to practice.
This is a free speech issue. He is not claiming to practice engineering nor is he doing anything that would give that impression to the public. The board has used their very broad definition of practice on others who have seen fit to challenge a variety of Oregon’s laws and regulations. This is basically about this man’s criticism of red light cameras.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi4brP0sXSQ
Oregon... Couldn’t he say the stop light camera is anti-gay and he is a transhomocisgenderfluid?
There should be a license required for calling yourself “The Science Guy”. We used tyo have respectable fake Scientists like Dr. Frank Baxter from the Bell Labs series.
He would have a stronger case to make if he never identified himself as an engineer in his public statements or letters. One of my previous employers had their legal department did a thorough review of the laws and regulations in every state where we did business, and they came back and changed the way we even listed titles for our own staff in our marketing materials to avoid any problems like the one this guy is facing.
Engineers who work in private industry and work exclusively under the direction of their own technical leaders on products that do not require approval from an engineer with a professional license are usually not covered under state laws and regulations. But if you sent a letter to a state or municipal government about a problem with a traffic signal and you identified yourself as a “Systems Engineer” in your correspondence, you might have a problem in many states.
Yeah, Stoplight only has 3 colors.
Not the whole 6 of gayness.
What if my business card says Politician?
More seriously, what kinds of titles did you come up with instead of engineer. I might need one.
Simply stating that you object to something that was engineered and giving your background as an engineer for that objection is in no way evidence that one is practicing engineering without a license.
In our company, the biggest point of potential problems revolved around junior engineers who hadn't yet passed their professional engineering exam. In most states you must have 3-4 years of work experience before you are even eligible to take the exam, so the big question is: What do you call these "junior engineers" if they aren't yet engineers?
We used to call someone in this position an Assistant Engineer or an Engineer I. After our legal review, we started calling them "Technicians" with a descriptor related to their field of work. So an entry-level environmental engineering graduate would be called an Environmental Technician, a civil engineering graduate who worked on bridge projects would be a Bridge Technician, etc. For more senior people who were recognized as experts in their fields but were not licensed, we'd call them Senior Environmental Consultant, Senior Bridge Consultant, etc.
Under the laws of my state it is. Apparently it is in Oregon, too.
If Bruce Jenner can self-identify as a woman and be celebrated, I see no issue with this gentleman self-identifying as an engineer.
The licensing board may have trouble collecting the fine, though. In some states the licensing board has very little legal authority to enforce a fine — and their most effective power is really just limited to suspending professional licenses for violators who refuse to pay the fine. But if the violation involves someone who is not licensed in the state and has no interest in getting licensed in the state, then the state board may have no power at all.
He should have blinded them with science.
Got it.
In Govt. work, we had position descriptions that said, for example, GS-830 Mechanical Engineer.
A technician was a specific position, “Lower” than an engineer. The title made a difference in some engineers minds.
However, there were technicians who were better and more knowledgeable as engineers than a ‘real’ engineer. A major difference was a college degree. These technicians were respected more than some engineers by those who understood their work.
Maybe I could self designate as an Undocumented Politician.
Could I get sanctuary somewhere? It sure feels like I need some.
I am familiar with how licensing boards work. People are often disappointed to discover that licensing boards cannot ride to their rescue and collect monetary damages on their behalf. Especially against one who is not licensed.
Many problems with boards come from how they decided to implement their rule making authority under the associated statute. If they misread or usurp the intent of the law the rules may actually conflict with what law makers wanted when the law was passed.
I will contend that such laws are misread by the rule making authority and I think that will be the argument in this suit. For example Florida Statute states
“No person other than a duly licensed engineer shall practice engineering or use the name or title of “licensed engineer,” “professional engineer,” or any other title, designation, words, letters, abbreviations, or device tending to indicate that such person holds an active license as an engineer in this state.”
Now a board reading this may very well decide the part which they must enforce is “No person... shall use the name licensed engineer.. or any other title...” So even stating that you are an engineer from another state or country means you used that name and are in violation of the law. But that is not the part of the statute which is to be enforced. That part is modified by the clause “tending to indicate that such person holds an active license as an engineer in this state.” That is the concern of the state, that a person does not misrepresent himself to the public as holding the necessary license to engage in the practice of engineering.
If such a person draws up a set of plans and provides load calculations and then says they will do in lieu of a sealed set when submitting them for approval because he worked as an engineer in Colorado that would be in violation of the statute. An ordinary person may assume that experience as an engineer in another state means he may practice engineering in Florida even without the proper license.
There is nothing that disallows one from stating their education, background, professional experience as an engineer when opining on matters related to the field of engineering in a specific locale. No ordinary person is going to assume that means you have a license to practice in that state especially if your statement is not connected with you performing any work of an engineer.
It’s a money grab. He has a degree and has been employed as an engineer. As long as he is not seeking employment or compensation as a licensed engineer, they have no beef.
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