All Waco Trials Delayed

The Aging Rebel ^ | 3/29/2017

[Strac6]

Oops, Altar Call

[TexasGator]

“No fewer facts than you are showing, possibly more.”

1. You have only ‘maybes’, zero facts.

2. You have not successfully challenged any of my facts.

3. ZERO is fewer than any positive real number.

[BlueDragon]

No, it’s a very simple legal issue that in some FReeper’s hate for government and LEOs, they either refuse or do not see.

That's a piss poor opening. You are attributing motives, confusing the issues, and asserting facts not in evidence. Why I should even bother to reply to such insulting nonsense?

I had asked you specifically if you were ok with the process up to a particular point. You utterly failed to provide anything approaching direct answer. Which leads me to think that you are ok with the way this had played out ---up to that point (and all along in the process afterwards also).

2: Because one police officer had no evidence, you assume no one did?

Here I have to guess at what you are referring to. The one officer I mentioned was representing Waco PD, in court. It's not like he was just some random bozo with a badge...
That does matter, or at the least it should have, at that point. Otherwise -- if assuming "some other officer DID" that would be assuming facts not testified to -- at THAT point in the proceedings. Doing so is not "justice". Which is part of why I told you about ham sandwiches...

As for argument the way you used mention of grand jury indictments -- it was worthless. It should not have even gone to a grand jury under the conditions that it did. A judge kicked the can down the road, allowed the process to go forward under that taint. As Paul Looney remarked a bit later --- [here paraphrased] "the DA has a novel theory".

The crime for which the conspiracy existed did not have to be murder. As you say, SOME crime is sufficient.

None more specifically were stipulated, and that is the problem. While so far (and more specifically -- at the particular point of the proceeding I had hoped to attract attention to) there had been no evidence and no real reason to think there would in the future be evidence that each of the 178 individuals indicted went to Waco on May 17, 2015 intent on committing murder. If not intent upon that --- what were they intent upon? What crime were they conspiring to commit? ANswer the fooking question! It is the relevant question

I've read the laws. There still needs to be some evidence of conspiracy on part of each individual thus charged also, or; Renya was lying to the court, hoping he could prove it later, or else skate on past that aspect and win convictions of "conspiracy" through use of innuendo and impugning guilt of "conspiracy" on basis of guilt by association alone.

Obviously what Renya did was a pressure tactic. Million dollar bail amounts for one and all. You were OK with THAT too? It matters not at all that those amount were later reduced. At the point of time those bails were set, that was violation of Constitutional provisions prohibiting defendants being held under excessive bail conditions.

No crimes were specifically stipulated in the indictments (once those finally came down, and is another issue, considerations for not included in the question I initially posed to you) other than charges of murder -- which included consideration for death of individuals who were most likely killed by LEO's. This introduces yet more problems. The indictments were cookie-cutter identical for each of the accused. Which could lead to another question that I shouldn't even bother to ask. You were ok with cookie cutter indictments, obviously enough. Many others are not ok with how those came about. Their objections having nothing to do with hate for government and LEOs, but instead was hate for abuses of law by those very same.

4: Suggest you review Texas law dealing with identifications of “gangs” as being, by definition, involved in a criminal conspiracy.

This is getting tedious already. I had cited to you the section of law identifying it by section and (a). I suggest you shut up with the kind of noise you just handed me. "I suggest" you say. I could suggest many things for to go and do.

Also, a recommendation; when making a legal argument, remove all the hyperbole adjectives and adverbs. They scream to any experienced reader, “I’m using them because that’s all I’ve got.

And all you've got is slander for basis of reply (from your opening sentence) in the midst of yourself obviously not understanding what I was more specifically talking about.

[BlueDragon]

As an example of how far the murder charges could apply..

Spare me the ten cent lecture. I know how the law reads. In this instance, there was no "lets' all drive to a drug deal" element of conspiracy which could then be extended to culpability for whatever other offenses did eventually occur. AND THAT is THE PROBLEM.

It's staring at you square in the face, from among your very own explanation of the law.

It's too bad that you are blind to it. You talked about alleged blindness of others, attributing that to their hatred of government and LEOs but have neglected to consider your own blindness in this matter. I'm here to assist, to help find cure for that.

The State’s case against some of the Waco Defs will be tough to prove, but if there was no prosecuteable case, many Def’s would have already been successful at the Appeal level in getting charges dismissed.

There have been no trials as of yet, there have been no convictions that could have as of yet been taken to Court of Appeals. You are mixing and matching what HAS already gone to other courts for review, while assuming that justice was truly done in those instances also. Here again you assume facts not in evidence, while misapplying the same. GEEZUS. Will it ever stop?

The laws are not there for prosecutors to use against persons to be deliberately over-charged as pressure tactic. That is abuse of the law. We should all of us require government officials exercise restraint whenever using what powers have been rightfully delegated. That some powers have been delegated does not equate to governmental hirelings be empowered to chose where the limits to their own powers are. Renya is example of how prosecutors press the limits, doing so while cynically manipulating process. I would desire that he be alone in this, merely an isolated example. Sadly, he is not. If you can't see it -- what is it going to take?

Will it take yourself being falsely accused --of what others are guilty of -- but yourself being squeezed (and property confiscated PRE-TRIAL(!) under civil forfeiture laws too!) to make it easier for a prosecutor to win conviction against others (if they can't somehow rightly, or even wrongly make it stick to yourself)?

Who will be around to oppose overreaching governmental hirelings? Surely not yourself. At that point you will be powerless, and there will be no one available and able to come to your aid.

[MileHi]

You can post that list over and over and it is still not a ballistics report. It is largely conjecture. Basically some wounds appear larger and some smaller.

[BlueDragon]

Amazing how many support murdering, drug dealing pimps.

4 bodies found at home of ex-Briarcliff Manor cop Nick Tartaglione

Here's Nick---> retired "on disability";

Tartaglione was a cop in Mount Vernon and Pawling before joining the Briarcliff Manor department in 1996. He receives an annual tax-free pension of $65,000 after retiring on disability in 2008 — but he was planning to give up the pension after applying this year for a job with the Mount Vernon Police Department.

---

From Chicago,

Corrupt Chicago Police Were Taxing Drug Dealers and Targeting Their Rivals [The Intercept]

Want more? It's not like Law Enforcement does not have some history of having harbored criminals within their own "gangs". Perhaps start (but in no wise end) here;

https://newsone.com/1551885/top-5-corrupt-police-officers/

Study finds police officers arrested 1,100 times per year, or 3 per day, nationwide Some of them, too sexy for their hats whattya' think about that?

http://interactives.ap.org/2015/betrayed-by-the-badge/

http://wsvn.com/news/local/bso-deputy-arrested-for-trying-to-extort-victim/ He was just a rookie, got fired immediately (nop harboring this time --- fool hadn't learned the secrets to that dark art yet -- killed himself (police say);

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article124612249.html

[TexasGator]

No conjecture. All facts.

[TexasGator]

Interesting. Because a bunch of cops havery been prosecuted you believe biker gangs should be free to murder and deal drugs ...

[BlueDragon]

Non sequitur. You're full of those.

Go play in the freeway, you bother me kid.

[Cboldt]

The charges "specified" were nothing more than a recitation of the statute.

Using that standard, Stract6 or anybody else can be charged with violating every criminal law on the books.

BTW, Stract6'[s writing style resembles that of some other worthless sot who used to post in these threads. They come and go. Blowhards, feh.

[Strac6]

I do not respond to those who have neither legal knowledge, nor the ability to realize they do not have it, or enough education to respond politely.

We will simply let the jury decide, which of course, all the attackers here and elsewhere are trying to prevent.

[BlueDragon]

I still suspect the the Feds were deeply involved in the Shootout at the Twin Peaks Corral.

Of course they were. Boasting about how they'd termed their investigation that led up to arrests and indictment of Portillo, Pike and Forster operation "Bottom Rocker" seals that deal. The dreadlocked Santa Claus (a jolly 'ol st. nick is he) walked free -- "no billed" for Geoffrey Brady's death.

They were the hidden hand, but need not have their hand fully up the backside of each and every local-level LE and County prosecutors. Those latter 'actors' could have been depended upon to play their hoped-for roles without direct (traceable) instruction -- and it seems like they have.

[Elderberry]

You can post that list over and over and it is still not a ballistics report. It is largely conjecture. Basically some wounds appear larger and some smaller.

I agree.

Will we ever get to see the ballistics report?

[Strac6]

PS In your copious spare time, you might wish to review some light bedtime reading of the Texas Code of Criminal Procedure, Title !, Ch 61 and 71.01 of the Texas Penal Code.

It will greatly help you understand the laws involved.

If you don’t like the law, help get some Banditos, Cossacks, Crips or Bloods elected.

[BlueDragon]

I do not respond to those who have neither legal knowledge, nor the ability to realize they do not have it,

But I responded to you, even though you are lacking recognition of a crucial element. I pointed right at it. (a) Read line (a). It all starts there. Miss that gate -- nothing else following can or need apply.

or enough education to respond politely.

he said while insulting my intelligence...

We will simply let the jury decide, which of course, all the attackers here and elsewhere are trying to prevent.

There you go again, attributing motive (as a cheap excuse for your own blindness). What's that you say? It is impolite for me to say that to you? You started in with the accusations. Don't now try to have things both ways. It's hypocrisy when you do (and you have).

Paul Looney, and Broden also filed very early (even prior to indictments) formal request for speedy trial. Looney followed that up later, too. It was Renya who filed indictments -- then said he wasn't prepared to proceed. Curious that. Now you try to blame that on freepers here? sheesh!

Most of the time, when prosecutors file charges, they include a filing stating that they are ready. It's almost a prerequisite, although one usually filed concurrently with indictment. What was Renya's excuse? That it was a complex case. So far, in only one case have any delay been attributable to defendants -- and that, only recently, and in instance of only one defendant.

When a prosecutor files charges -- then requests delays in taking those charges to trial, what is that other than denying defendants constitutional right to speedy trail? That Renya has so far gotten away with it (through cynical manipulation of judicial processes) in no wise makes him having done so ~constitutional~ simply for that reason.

[TexasGator]

You don’t bother me ...

[BlueDragon]

If you don’t like the law, help get some Banditos, Cossacks, Crips or Bloods elected.

How about you take comment such as this, and shove them right back up into where they came from? If you required any assistance in that endeavor, I'd be willing to lend a boot to help get it up in there.

[MileHi]

It is a act that that list is someone’s opinion, not a ballistic report. The difference between a “medium caliber” 9mm and .223 is about a tenth of an inch. In a body that ain’t much. Where are the projectiles?

[MileHi]

We will simply let the jury decide, which of course, all the attackers here and elsewhere are trying to prevent.

Actually, you and the corrupt DA Reyna are the ones doing that. Posters here are decrying his efforts to drag all this out and deny the defendants their day in court.

[MileHi]

Will we ever get to see the ballistics report?

Not if Reyna can help it.